Which system do you think benefits the people of a nation more?

Question

the Scandinavian model of high taxes, big government and excellent public services/health care, or the American model of low taxes, competitive economy, small government and patchy healthcare/public services.

I guess i'm asking if you think a country's economic performance will compensate for poor local provisions by making people richer, or if it’s worth sacrificing economic competitiveness to provide for the populace.

if you could explain how you've come to this conclusion, i'd greatly appreciate it.

no one is disputing that the US model is better economically, but is this better for the people of the nation long term?

As for the folk saying daft things like only the american model gives freedom, it may interest you to know that scandinavian nations enjoy more civil liberties than most other nations : their governments don't tap the phones like in the USA, or hold terrorist suspects without charge, like here in the UK.

sfavorite711, the article you posted is about a proposal, not about actula government practice, as is the case with bush.

well holland is not scandinavian, so its irrelvent

norwegian spying has been stopped, =>civil liberties are being increased

american spying is increasing
=> civil liberties are being eroded.

The united states is not the 'most free' nation nor is it the only free nation.

You make good points as to why the US econmy is stronger, but you have failed to address why many scandinavian nations (norway, denmark, iceland, sweden) are competive with the US in terms of per captia GDP




http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-nominal-per-capita

But by you're arguments, the US should be far ahead of all these 'socialists' .as for norway, as i said and as you're article shows, the illegal spying has stopped, and in the usa the spying is only starting. Sweden many be moving towards a more american model since its conservative government took power, but the laws haven't yet been passed.

Answer 1

It's a balance - that we don't have right now thanks to the anti-people right. The other prosperous democracies have balanced the two,and the results have been much lower crime rates, lower teen pregnancy, abortions, std's, obesity, and preventable diseases.

Facts;

Answer 2

I have a problem with the Scandinavian model for the same reason I do with all socialism. The focus is always on the "free" services. There is no free someone pays. The question is who is the best person to pay? The person receiving the services or taking money from someone else to pay for those services.

The U.S. doesn't have a pure market economy with medical care either. We are seeing massive jumps in cost. This is inevitable since we now must cover the cost of the government employees to administer it.

The Scandinavian countries have higher unemployment, lower productivity. During down times (recessions) countries with socialist models suffer even more. It is true that having government services relieves some of pain but causes much more pain in other areas: self respect, self reliance, employment, productivity, etc...

In the states we do not have government funding of eye correction surgery (lasik) and insurance companies don't pay for it. What has happened to the cost and quality? The quality and success rate has gone up and the cost has dropped drastically (there has been some price increase with new technologies but those prices drop over time). This is the benefit of free markets.
--------------
No phone taps huh?
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/30/news/sweden.php
Never happens huh?
http://www.fecl.org/circular/4305.htm
Only the evil George Bush would do that?
http://goliath.ecnext.com/comsite5/bin/pdinventory.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=2750&item_id=0199-3882480

Only one of the three is a proposal. But I guess it is okay if the government is TRYING to tap your phone. LOL, you crack me up. How about...how did they say it, oh yes... the illegal spying on Norwegian citizens?
------------
So Norway spying on citizens is not as bad as U.S. tapping the international phone calls of Al Queda to the States? Hmmm...I don't think so. Holland is not Scandinavia but Sweden is and they want to start spying!
Scandinavia --> civil liberties are being eroded.

I think all governments do things to their citizens they shouldn't. I don't think it is possible to find any country that doesn't have a black mark. I love Europe, been to Sweden and Finland - great countries. But to say that the U.S. is the only country to tap phones is foolish.

GPD: In Scandinavia only Norway has a higher GDP then the States. And only buy a $1000 dollars. When you subtract the oil exports of Norway they are less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Answer 3

Conceptually, the American model if far superior as it does not place a great fiscal drag on the economy.
The practise may be rather different. The American legal system is a massive barrier to competition as the cost of insuring against liability claims and the excessive involvement of lawyers and accountants in minor corporate decisions is an effective tax without the benefits of associated public spending.
With a massive federal deficit caused mainly by defence spending, low taxation may soon be just a memory for many Americans.
The small government referred to is forever growing with further Federal intrusion into people's lives. Asset confiscation laws in the US reinforced by percentage bonuses paid to law(?) officers generates significant revenue using methods that the man on the Clapham omnibus would call theft.

Answer 4

The problems with the American system stem from government interference and insurance coverage. Remove both and you would have the most efficient system possible. Even ham-stringed the way it is, the American system is the best in the world.

Edit: Why explain when no one cares to listen? I'm not big on socialized education, either. I CAN point you in the right direction: Buy a used Intro to Economics textbook....then read it. Focus on the mechanics of a Supply and Demand Curve, and the effects of artificial controls.

Answer 5

free speech, the right of all persons over the age of 17 to vote,and freedom of the press. of course everybody worries about abuse of nhs provision, by peole who do not pay tax or insurance here, financial tourists, especially when you stop work in the us at 60 and have no medical cover for five years, and have to come here for 5 years, that sort of thing, but, may i add, the tax system is rotten here, far too high, are we paying for all those wars, without being asked to do so?

Answer 6

You didn't mention the fact that the Scandinavian societies don't spend any money on Defense. They don't have our freedoms in the U.S. They are dependent on the USA and UK to take care of them in a military situation. How about if we make a trade and for protecting them they take care of our social programs and health care problems?

Answer 7

Well, the richest 40% of us is better off with the American system (though it would lose much sleep worrying it will lose it all in one robbery or corporate-con), while the other 60% is better off with a Scandianvian system. And in any democracy, the richest 40% decide (by funding the wanna-be candidates for govt)!

Answer 8

The American model of low taxes? You must not be making any money. Anyway, perhaps Scandinavia would be a good place for you to migrate.

Answer 9

The American model of Selfishness, with the christian religion bolted on - to justify all the poverty - is a complete failure - and is being bailed out to the tune of trillions of dollars by "Communist" China. So unless you don't want you country to follow the exact same fate - it's best ignored.

Answer 10

It depends on the people. For people who love freedom, it would be the American model. For everyone else, it would be the Scandinavian model.

Answer 11

Uh, the so-called "American" model isn't true-to-name. You'd need rapacious unintelligible tax laws, sinking economy, and ultra-supersized government to go with that patchy healthcare..

If you went with the model you label "American", then I believe that would benefit the citizenry most in terms of access to healthcare balanced with political freedoms. Socialism is just a giant flustercuck draining everyone down with it.