Why do liberals support abortion?

Question

Ok, regardless of wether you think abortion is wrong or right, you must admit that it is rather strange that liberals support it.

Consider this. Liberals say live and let live, even for animals (look at PETA). Regardless if you think an unborn child/fetus is human or animal, you're killing something. Why are liberals ok with is?

Consider this: Liberals love standing up for the innocent that can't speak for themselves. Is there anything more innocent and unable to stand up for itself than a human embryo?

Consider this: Liberals tell us we should maximise freedom of choice. Why isn't the baby's choice considered in this? After all, its very clearly choosing to be born. And you if you think there is no choice being made, then you devalue choice in general. After all, it all comes from biological functions.

I find this, and other contradictions to be baffling. I would think that abortion would be something more attractive to conservatives. Yet it istn't. Why?

No mama. That's not strange because there's a large distinction between killing a murderer and killing an innocent. I'm afraid wit has escaped you.

Map, not understanding my question is intellectually lazy. I said "liberals" not ALL liberals. Please argue/answer the question, not attack the semantics.

Oh, and please no ad hominem.

Phoenix and Elways give me real responses. Thanks.

Pheonix, its an interesting point that you make, that liberals may not believe that life begins until a certain point.

It would seem to explain some of this position. Still though, what is that point?

onanist, does a woman ever say, "the fetus kicked!" No, she says the baby kicked.

Those supporting abortion have made great strides to dehumanize unborn infants to make the idea more attractive.

It seems most liberals responding to this distance themselves from PETA. I think PETA is most certainly a left wing organisation. Question to the liberals: Do you feel the left adopted PETA, or that PETA adopted the left?

Justagirl......imagine this:

You are a young male that has been falsely accused of a crime. You are found guilty by your peers and the government takes away your freedom and puts you in prison. What right do they have to take away your rights? After all, you did nothing wrong.

Should we then do away with the prison system?

ajtheactr,

The poster said my entire post was intellectually lazy, not the wording. You misunderstood that post like you misunderstood mine.

Further more, your assertion that unborn babies are incapable of choice is wrong. Consider that the brain and all of our functions are biological. We call that choice. When someone throws something at us, we react but it was still a choice. It't hardwired biologically. Choice isn't just the removal of that hardwiring.

That's why you cannot differentiate between the choices of unborn infants and adults. Besides, we aren't even sure just how conscious or unconscious babies actually are. Would you err on the side of inhumanity?

P.S. Actually, the KKK is historically a democratic group. In fact many prominent members of the modern Democratic party were associated or a part of the KKK. Just look at Senator Byrd for instance.

Justagirl, Elway and Phoenix, thank you for providing the best answers thus far. I only agree with one of you actually, but you refrained from atacking me personally and spelled your opinion out nicely. Thank you.

Justagirl, Since you're curious:

I'm an agnostic and a moderate. I'm playing something of a devil's advocate right now.

I'm not anti liberal, I'm anti people who call themselves liberal but don't act like it. If you will please note, this question is asking why people on the left support something that doesn't seem like they would logically support. I'm fishing for an extra reason (and I got one actually, thanks to phoenix).

My analogy between prison is as perfect as one can be for something like abortion.

The premise of your story is that the woman was a victim. Something bad happened to her because she was in the wrong place at the wrong. As a result of this, the government makes a choice for her on her freedom. Same my fictional male. Wrong place at the wrong time. Government legally forces his body into a prison system.

Rape is unfortunate. It happened to me when I was a child. Don't even think I don't know what this is about. It does not however.....

...give me the right to punish another individual because of someone else's (or in the case of abortions, my own) actions.

That's why your logic is flawed. You could use that same logic to justify just about anything.

If you'd like to discuss this further, hit me up on email. I'd be more than happy to chat this one.

P.S. Just because I attack bad logic, doesn't mean I certainly agree with alternative logic.

P.P.S. I'm a record producer and and "unempathetic" person who runs and founded an international children's charity for orphans.

"Just because we can perserve life doesn't mean we HAVE to perserve it. It is about quality not quanity."

Do you support the Iraq war? With that logic you'd have to.

It is a valid point though. I was hoping for more of this rather than the ad hominem that proceeds it in your edit.

Oh and ajt, my source is just a mere two PHD neurologists on the subject of unborn children and choices. What would they know? Sorry for the use of facts.

Megan W: Personal attacks are no substitute for a rational arguement. Nevertheless, you inadvertantly moved the discussion in a direction I'd like it to go.

When is it "too late" for an abortion, if there is such a time? How do we determine that?

Paul W: Some already made the same misunderstanding and I already clarified. Reading is your friend.

Eviltruit...........humans in generals are just a collection of cells. That is such a horrible argument.

I believe that good arguments can be made in support of abortion, I just almost never hear them from supporters of abortion. (To his credit though, phoenix supplies one.)

Atj: I'm surprised you decided to respond.

1. You brought up the subject of the KKK and made a factual error. I corrected your error and now you are saying I brought up the kkk to distract from the real issue.......right.

If you could please read "edit 2" of your own post, you will find the spot you brought it up in.

2. I hope you can deal with the shock in this one, but you accidentally agreed with me. I'm sorry. If you could please reread my post, you will notice that the question of consciousness/choice and babies was one unresolved to a detailed form. Hence my comment on erring on the side of inhumanity.

3. I'm sure you probably hate me for disagreeing with you, but I don't like BULL**** arguments and ad hominem. That I'm calling you out for both seems to offend you.

There are legitimate reasons to support abortion, but for some reason, we aren't discussing these.

And you're right, I wrote this question to get a peer review on inconsistencies I noticed...

Answer 1

It depends on which liberal you are speaking to. Some do not believe life begins until a certain point. Therefore, the choice of the baby is not relevant. Others believe that abortion is along the same lines as birth control and is therefore no different than taking the pill. Liberals cannot be lumped into one category as conservatives cannot either. I myself am not in favor of late terms abortions outside of rape or incest. I also feel that abortion should never be a first solution, but should be the last after all other options have been exhausted. It all depends on who you talk to.

Answer 2

MusicMan - I know this is probably impossible for you to imagine, but say you are a young girl. Say that you are for sake of a specific argument, date-raped. Shortly after this traumatic experience, you find yourself pregnant. The government (historically white men at least 40 years older than you, generally) in its benevolent wisdom has decided that you, Miss, as of that moment now do not control your own body and what happens to it. You are in no way physically or emotionally or financially prepared to be a mother. But you no longer have control over your own body - the GOVERNMENT has RULED that you will carry that baby and give birth. I don't know if you can imagine what that would feel like, or how wrong that is.

I hate abortion. Everybody hates abortion. But I say to you, that no man can have that kind of control over a woman's body - it is her body. They are our bodies and we will decide. That's it. We are forced to defend something that we all know is awful because otherwise, our bodies are not our own.

It is not such a contradiction if you could somehow put yourself into the mind of a young woman. We are hardwired to protect life. We are mothers. We don't take abortion lightly. What we will never allow is that kind of control over our bodies. We are human beings and embryos are not and you are a man and you just don't understand.

But I really do hate abortion. It should never be used as birth control. It is awful and women know it and we must work together to make it a rare but safe thing for women in trouble. We will protect that to the end.

Answer 3

Well, the choice needs to be in the hands of the woman, because it is her body that is being effected by the pregnancy. In the early stages of pregnancy, the fetus is nothing more than a collection of cells. The fact that the cells are living is irrelevant, we have no problem removing cancer cells, they're living cells, too. It is not conscious, and is therefore not capable of making a conscious choice.

Pregnancy is a dangerous process for a woman, there are numerous complications that can arise that can put her life and health at risk. She has a right to avoid them is she wants.

So, in response to your question, no it is not strange that many liberals uphold the right to choose, because forcing a woman to carry a child against her will is tantamount to slavery, and liberals tend to be against robbing people of their rights.

Answer 4

I would think that abortion would be more attractive to conservatives as well, especially those who support the death penalty. I have often wondered about that contradiction. Not being pro-choice because all life is sacred and death is God's job; but supporting the death penalty because a murderer's life isn't worth paying the money it costs to keep him in prison for life without parole. Or is it just that, in these instances, they can refer back to "an eye for an eye" and call it good in the eyes of God. Either way, to me the two things just don't jibe.

Answer 5

I'm a liberal so I feel qualified to answer your question.

I think PETA is a bunch of morons. We are omnivores our bodies work best when we eat a mix of meat and plants. Although I limit meat consumption and won't buy new fur I have no problem with leather or vintage fur. I think most animal testing is cruel but necessary.

A human embryo has every right to exist on it its own. Almost 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage so it is pretty obvious that your line of reasoning that the embryo is choosing to be born is in error. A embryo has no independent thought so even ascribing choice to live is a mistake.

Forcing a woman to carry that embryo to term is not right. It is the state prescribing a course of action. Just as not right as the state saying that it has the right to murder in my name [the death penalty]. Another example of the conservative mind set that says that the state has sovereignty over individuals.

Some conservatives tend to want to impose their lifestyle choices on others. Some liberals don't. [The live and let thing you mention above]

And the poster above hit it right on the head, the wording of your question is intellectually lazy. As intellectually lazy as claiming PETA is a liberal group or saying the KKK is conservative group.

Edit 2
I didn't misunderstand your posting at all. You are trying to incite a bunch of anti choice rhetoric by appealing to the image of the "poor innocent baby" And your talk about choice in adults and children is a misguided attempt to make comparisons where none exist. If you look it as a case of individual rights over the rights of the state there is no room for debate. Any embryo that can survive on its own outside the host body has the right to live. Nature does a good job of getting rid of a lot of faulty embryos, and it is inhuman to give birth to a baby that one has no desire to have or rear.

Just because we can preserve life doesn't mean we HAVE to preserve it. It is about quality not quantity.

Final edit
Interesting how you tried to tie the KKK to the democratic party rather than address the parallel regarding associating PETA with Liberals. You made no comment about the faulty logic [which I'm pretty sure even you could see, I did my best to make it apparent in my wording] but instead tried to change the argument completely. Another example of intellectual laziness.

That kind of comment leaves you with little room to cry ad hominem at others, by the way. Same tactic as your citing two PHD in your comments. PHD studies are not focusing on the physical but rather the scholastic and philosophic.
Even medical doctors who have a great deal more information about the human brain don't presume to know how the brain functions during development.

And your assumption that I must support the war in Iraq because of a comment about quality of life over quality is also in error. What giant leap of logic was required to misinterpret that comment I can only guess at? The war in Iraq is a farce perpetrated on lies and racism to justify American Imperialism. It was never about freedom or safety, it was a chance for a lot of really rich men to get even richer by killing off a lot of poor people.

I think you've got some seriously confused ideas about what liberals really believe. And from the tone of your posting you don't really want to learn you just want to point out what you see as inconsistencies while totally ignoring that the inconsistencies are just as apparent, if not more so, in the Conservative stance.

That you consider yourself a moderate is no great surprise to me. It is your way of distancing yourself from the inconsistancies that exist at either end of the spectrum.

What causes those inconsistencies is that people are individuals and to try and pigeon hole them in to tight definitions of conservative or liberal is intellectually lazy and is doing them and yourself a disservice.

Answer 6

If the "fetus" is kicking--it's too late for an abortion. Or have you been told like a lot of sheep that a woman can have an abortion right up until the last month?

Answer 7

OK, I consider myself a liberal ( Yes I'm proud to say that I voted both for Gore in '00 and Kerry in '04) and I am most DEFINITELY against abortions, so it is wrong for you to say that all liberals think the way you say we do.

Answer 8

The majority of democrats, and about 40% of republicans, believe it is up to the woman to decide is she is going to have an abortion.

Lumping everyone together, for example saying that every liberal thinks like a PETA member, is intellectually lazy.

Answer 9

Why would baby-killing be more attractive to conservatives than to liberals. Obviously your personal bias is in error, as your facts in your question evidence. Maybe it has to do with how real conservatives are, and how fake liberals are. Like, how the Kennedys and Kerrys and many more get on this "let's help the less fortunate of the world", and yet they live in incredible wealth. Hmmm. Like Billy and Hillary, they smile while they kill you. Did I call them murderers?? Yes, I did!! And they did that to adults in our country as well as supporting abortion. Hmmm. And they hate war. Aren't they holy. God Bless you. I love your question.

Answer 10

Liberals believe above all that there cannot be judgment on a person's behavior. Abortion is needed in most cases because of bad personal choices.