Was Michael Jordan Overrated?

Question

Now, before you get your panties in a bunch, consider the following:

1) He's considered by many to be the greatest scorer ever, yet, his scoring numbers pale in comparison to Wilt Chamberlain. For example:

Highest ppg in a season> Wilt 50.4 MJ; 37.1
Most games with 70+ points> Wilt: 6 MJ: 0
Most games with 50+ points> Wilt: 119 MJ: 30
Most points in a game> Wilt: 100 MJ: 69 in overtime
Highest fg% in one year> Wilt: 73% MJ: 54%


2) His 6 "rings."......people act like he won them all by himself. Actually, Jordan's playoff record without Scottie Pippen is only 1-9 ( that's 1 win and 9 LOSSES! ). Its no doubt, Jordan had great players around him.


3) When he retired, everyone predicted disaster for Chicago. How could they possibly expect to win without Jordan? Yet, the Bulls only dropped two games in the win column, going from 57-25 in Jordan's last year to 55-27 without him.


So what do you all think?

"irad22", "kevin f", and "nick"....to say that no one played defense back then is absurd, and very typical of Jordan worshipers. Jordan benefited from looser rules such as hand checking, flagrant fouls, and illegal defenses, which made it much easier for him. Ref's would constantly let players foul Wilt in order to stop his dominance. But nice try though...

"kevin f", "jbirch248", and "nick".....Wilt only had 3 inches on Russell. Yao Ming has 6 inches on Shaq, but I don't see him dropping 50 points and 30 rebounds on O'neal. Nice try, but the height excuse doesn't work either.

"nick".....boy, you really don't know alot about basketball do ya? Do the names Nate Thurmond, Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, or Gail Goodrich mean anything to you? They were all part of Wilt's "not so good" supporting cast. Oh, btw, they're all in the Hall of Fame. Nice talking to you

"capt c"....I just gave you better stats

"Alpha Wolf'....Bird led a Celtic team that had only won 29 games the year prior to his arrival, to 61 wins his rookie year. He didn't have 3-4 HOFers on that team. Jordan took a Bulls team from 27 wins to 38 wins. Not a great improvement for someone supposed to be "the greatest ever". My point is that everyone acts like he won those 6 titles all by himself. Well then, why didn't he win titles in 85,86,87,88,89,90,02, or 03? The answer is that when he won, he had alot of help. And I agree, Pippen never got the credit he deserved.

"sadiesamkurby".....well then, why don't YOU tell me why he's NOT overrated?? And no, I don't hate Jordan.

"dmbnorton"....Jordan retired for the first time in 1994. He was replaced with a player from the CBA, and the Bulls went 55-27, after going 57-25 in 1993 (the last year of Jordan's first 3-peat). The Bulls lost in the second round to the Knicks in 7 . Don't you think if a team loses its "star player", and replaces him with somebody with no NBA experience, they'd end up dropping more than two games in the win column? Could the possibility exist that the Bulls just had a great team with or without Jordan? Also, Pippen, Grant, and BJ Armstrong all made the all-star team that year, without MJ there to "make them better." lol

"Chris S"...."rings" are actually a measure of a teams greatness, not an individuals. But if you want to use that criteria, then Bill Russell has 11 of 'em. Sam Jones has 10. John Havlicek and KC Jones have 8 apiece. So no, Jordan's 6 is not the most......and unless you count Bill Laimbeer as a great center, the 89-90 Pistons.

"dmbnorton"....one more thing...the example you gave was after his second retirement. You can't accurately compare that because the Bulls completely broke up the team along with MJ retiring. Pippen, Rodman, Longley, and Kerr all went when Jordan did. So 1994 is the only fair comparison. Also....when he returned near the end of the 1995 season, it was GUARANTEED the Bulls would win another championship because he came back. They lost again in the second round to Orlando in 6. The folowing year, they pick up Rodman and win 3 more titles.

"Alpha"...you're saying that Jordan is better than Bird simply because of "2 rings?". Keep in mind that Jordan played in the watered-down 90's. The competition when Bird played was much, much tougher. Remember, Jordan couldn't win anything in the 80's. Bird was a much more complete player than Jordan was.

THANK YOU "ALPHA WOLF"......FINALLY somebody gets it. Michael Jordan was the most heavily promoted player in NBA history, thats what makes him great! Of course it's not the stats, because the stats don't support his claim as the greatest ever. Wilt completely dominates him in scoring, Russell won more titles and was better defensively, and Bird, Magic, and Oscar were more complete players than MJ. People identify with Jordan because his face was everywhere when he played. The only stat Jordan beats everyone else on is endorsements and popularity. He put fans in the stands, and the NBA made it as easy as possible for him to succeed because it was good for basketball. Good job

Alpha....what does marketability have to do with greatness? Jordan was better than Oscar because he had more endorsements?

"melo15"....exactly my point. If he was the "heart" of the Bulls, then why couldn't he lead them to victory in 1995? He didn't get the Bulls any further with him playing than the Bulls got without him.
And don't bring up the fact that Russell played with great players. They didn't win before Russell came, and they didn't even make the playoffs when he retired (unlike the Bulls ). Nice try though.....

...and could you be more specific as to which of my reasonings and answers are not correct?

"naj1_1"....boy, you guys are getting desperate. Wilt shamelessly padded his stats? Is that the same as Jordan NOT PASSING to the teammate with the better shot? And the lane was widened in 64-65. Wilt averaged over 30 point the next two sesons and just about the same in rebounds. Wilt's primary moves were a fadeaway jumper, and finger roll ( he hardly ever dunked, unlike Jordan).

"Alpha"...you're not going to get an argument on whether Jordan was great or not. HE WAS! If you're looking at it from an entertainment standpoint, then Jordan was probably the most entertaining player. But is he really the greatest based on talent and accomplishments. I think I've proven he isn't. You've got to do better than just fans dreaming of being Michael Jordan.

DAVID R.....maybe that's because what Wilt accomplished in his career is so far out of reach, that you CAN'T compare anyone today with him. Do you see anybody today scoring 50 points and pulling down 30 rebounds on a regular basis, if you know what I mean....lol

Here's another Wilt stat for everyone to ponder: He was the ONLY PLAYER EVER to record a double, triple-double. On Feb 4th, 1968, he had 22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists. IN ONE GAME! Too bad ESPN wasn't around to see that.

ALPHA...are you saying that Magic & Bird didn't have "pure skill" or "an undying love for the game?" You, yourself said that without Pippen, Jordan's just a bald-headed Dominique, and you were 100% right.

Answer 1

1) He is not overrated.Wilt was a great scorer...but Wilt was not a great Winner.

2)Jordan did win six with one of the best allaround player's(PiP).
But look at Bird or Magic's roster's when they were winning.They had 3-4 HOF on there roster and won less.Celtics had the greatest frontline ever!

3)Yes the bulls still played well! Pip had alot to do with that...bottomline they could'nt get it done.They could'nt close the deal......what seperates good from great ?..closing the deal and winning the championship.If anything you proved Pippen is underated.

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Hoopfan your cool man, you know your basketball! All I was saying was Bird played with alot of HOF..from Mchale, Parish,Walton and Tiny(?hof)to Maxwell(?hof) he won 3 rings.

Bird is a great player..Jordan is a little(2 rings) better.

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sorry man (long day at work) Jordan's has 3 ring's on Bird..1 on Mag.You can't compare era's....from Clyde.Barkley,Magic(yeah he was hurt in 90),Stock/Malone to Payton/kemp he played some great teams.....anyways I don't think it's about the stats with Jordan.He had something special, I don't know exactly what ,but I know it was there.He connected to more people then any athlete ever...that's what really made him great.

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The fact we are even talking about him now ..means he's the greatest......
The question is why was he the most marketed athlete?When you answer that, you will find out why he is great

He was a undergog who became a champion amongst champions! The greatest ever!......................

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We are the fans who love the game of basketball.We are the ones who dream of last second shot's to win the game....We are the ones who dream of bieng on "fire" in the NBA finals..We imagine soaring through the air and dunking...We are the fan's..we are the ones who have the love for the game.

Michael Jordan will always be that kid dreaming.....something inside him made him never forget his love for the game.He will always be that fan dreaming of becoming a champion....he will always be just one of us.
This is what made him great.
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Pure skill and a undying love for the game, made him arguably the greatest ever............so let's recap..
He's great..the most entertaining player ever(you said it).He is a champion(second to only "the great Bill russell")he is the second greatest scorer(behind Wilt)Apealed to more people and was marketed to more people then any other ATHLETE in HISTORY!

.So how in the hell is he overrated?....hope you have more then meaningless stats and a 5yrs without PiP.

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Of course if M.Jordan didn't have great teamates he would have been a great player with no rings...similiar to D.Wilkens

All I meant was in order to be considered the greatest you have to be a NBA champion.Would MJ be a champion without Pip?...no.Would Magic be a champion without Kareem?..doubt it How about Bird without Parish etc... All these great players had pure skill and they were blessed to have great teamates also.With skill, love for the game and great teamates they all had a chance to become champions....and all three ,Bird,Magic and Jordan capitolized on it.......that's what seperated them from thier peers.Then Jordan seperated himself from them...when you look at his whole body of work (his winning,his legacy,his stats, but MOST! importantly who he is) he is the greatest.

Answer 2

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Answer 3

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I think he only becomes overrated when people say he's the best of all times, or the GOAT. Because as I said in my last answer there is no GOAT. While it may have been a sin to the other greats to call the greatest ever, in modern times he is the best to have ever come along. Yes he had his shortcomings in the 80's where most of the debates roots. But remember that Jordan didn't come to a championship caliber squad at the instant of his entry. His only great teammate before 1987 (the draft that produced Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant) came in in 1985-86 in the person of George Gervin and in the season where he got injured and only played 18 games. Jordan basically had to wait 3 years for Pippen and another three more years before the completion of his championship squad, as opposed to his peers Magic Johnson who basically have Kareem at the very start of his career and Larry Bird who have came in a very talented squad with All-star and NBA great Nate Archbald at the point. So I think in that respect Jordan is never overrated. He maybe is the Greatest Shooting Guard as of this time, with Kobe a very close second. Hope this helps.

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RE:
Was Michael Jordan Overrated?
Now, before you get your panties in a bunch, consider the following:

1) He's considered by many to be the greatest scorer ever, yet, his scoring numbers pale in comparison to Wilt Chamberlain. For example:

Highest ppg in a season> Wilt 50.4 MJ; 37.1
Most games with 70+...

Answer 6

He is only overrated because MJ fans forget about people like Russel, Cousy, West( aka MR. CLUTCH), Kareem, Magic, Bird and they want to cry how Kobe sucks. ESPN sold a whole generation that Jordan was they best ever but never taught you about NBA history and how the NBA was dead until Magic and Bird brought showtime. Or the days in the 60's with Baylor and West, Russel

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Answer 11

Had a very good player in Pippen along with role players and no center of any consequence. He has 6 rings to prove he's the best ever. Magic had 5 but had better players with Worthy, Kareem, Wilkes, Nixon, Cooper. Besides Pippen, Horace Grant, aging Rodman, can't think of any other top flight players on those 90's teams. Lets do some research....since 1980 (when I started following NBA).....what teams besides the Bulls won w/o a top center? Lakers had Kareem, Celts had Parish, Rockets had Akeem, Spurs Dunca, Heat and Lakers w/ Shaq.