Looking for conversation regarding Lincolns view regarding slavery?

Question

Lincoln specifically states that he 'is not in favor of bringing about is any way the social and political equality of the white and black races'. But I have always believed he fought for their freedom.

Answer 1

Lincoln was reluctant to issue an Emancipation Proclamation but you would have thought from what one is taught in class these days this was his primary concern. He issued the proclamation to save the Union making impossible for foreign Governments to intervene on behalf of the Confederacy. Even though the English supported (indirectly) slavery, they like other countries were officially against the practice. By his actions, Lincoln was showing the US was against slavery but not the Confederacy. If like the leaders of these countries at the time, you took the time to read and study the act you would see it does nothing and in fact, Lincoln thought that the Afro American was not the equal of whites and his plan was to resettle the slaves in either the Amazon or Western Texas.

Most people are not aware that there was a series of action and even proclamations for instance Lincolns correspondence of October 14, 1862 to the military and civilian authorities of occupied Louisiana.

“Major General Butler, Governor Shepley, & and [sic] all having military and naval authority under the United States within the S[t]ate of Louisiana. The bearer of this, Hon. John E. Bouligny, a citizen of Louisiana, goes to the State seeking to have such of the people thereof as desire to avoid the unsatisfactory prospect before them, and to have peace again upon the old terms under the constitution of the United States, to manifest such desire by elections of members to the Congress of the United States particularly, and perhaps a legislature, State officers, and United States Senators friendly to their object. I shall be glad for you and each of you, to aid him and all others acting for this object, as much as possible. In all available ways, give the people a chance to express their wishes at these elections. Follow forms of law as far as convenient, but at all events get the expression of the largest number of the people possible. All see how such action will connect with, and affect the proclamation of September 22nd. Of course, the men elected should be gentlemen of character willing to swear support to the Constitution, as of old, and known to be above reasonable suspicion of duplicity. (CW 5:462-3, italics added).

NOTE: The italic show that Lincoln rather then issue an Emancipation Proclamation or free the slaves was still willing to allow the Southern States back into the Union. One will find this all the way up to the 1865 visit to Camp Lookout.

At the same time Lincoln was issuing the Emancipation Proclamation he was petitioning his cabinet to negotiate and appropriate funds to force the Blacks else where.

In 1864, Jeff Davis and other Southerner leaders would contemplate outlawing slavery and probably would have if the opportunity had arisen.

God Bless You and The Southern People.


Oh one more thing I would suggest you read "Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream" by Lerone Bennett top Afro American writer.

Answer 2

There is a small work I read on Lincoln's view of slaves by Robert Bruce called "Lincoln's changing views on slavery".
Another good book to read is "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas Dilorenzo.

Lincoln hated the idea of the races mixing and even was investigating sending many slaves back to Africa and other places.

Lincoln stated “that not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours"

You can learn a lot by reading the emancipation proclamation carefully and taking a look at a map that shows what territory the Union controlled at that time. Lincoln "freed" the slaves only in Confederate held territory. It would be like us telling all the taxi drivers in Italy they can stay home for a month. LOL In the areas that were controlled by the Union like Kentucky and Missouri that still belonged to the Union he freed not one slave. So he only "freed" slaves where he actually didn't have the power to enforce it and where he did have the power to enforce it he didn't free any.

The proclamation was basically a political tool to keep Europe from siding with the confederates. Lincoln probably felt like it would also be a bonus if slaves in confederate territory heard about this and began to revolt.

Answer 3

In 1858 during the campaign for the United States Senate, Lincoln met stiff competition from Stephen Douglas. A series of seven debates, most of which confronted the issues of popular sovereignty and slavery in the territories, was the high point of the campaign. The idea for the debates was proposed by Lincoln, who hoped to gain public recognition. Douglas, who was for popular sovereignty and did not care whether the vote was for or against as long as it was honest, used the debates to portray Lincoln as a virtual abolitionist and advocate of racial equality. Both charges were calculated to doom Lincoln in the eyes of the intensely racist Illinois voters. In response, Lincoln affirmed that Congress had no constitutional authority to abolish slavery in the South. In one debate he asserted bluntly that "I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about the social and political equality of the white and black man." Lincoln faced the problem throughout the debates that free soil and popular sovereignty, although distinguishable in theory, had the same practical impact. Neither Lincoln nor Douglas doubted that popular sovereignty, if fairly applied, would keep slavery out of the territories. In order to keep the initiative and sharpen their differences, Lincoln shifted in the closing debates toward attacks on slavery as "a moral, social, and political evil." He argued that Douglas's view on slavery as merely an eccentric and rather unsavory Southern custom would dull the nation's conscience and promote the legalization of slavery everywhere. In doing this, Lincoln compromised his own position by rejecting both abolition and equality for blacks; at the same time he gained public support in the North. Once again, he shifted his views to conform to public opinion.

he also said this

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...

Abraham Lincoln once said, "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I cannot remember when I did not so think and feel." Indeed

u can see he was anti slavery but he never thought they should be equals to us in fact Lincoln had a plan after he freed the slaves he was going to send them back to Africa

Answer 4

Although Lincoln was personally against slavery, he was not prepared in 1861 to risk the Union over slavery. He said if he could preserve the Union by freeing all the slaves, he would do it. If he could save the Union by freeing none of the slaves he would keep them all slaves. And if he could save the Union by freeing some and leaving some in bondage he would do that.

In the early years he fired or censured generals who refused to return runaway slaves to their masters.

By late 1862, France and England were considering entering the War on the side of the South. The South had been winning most major battles and it looked like they could succeed in secession. (Both France and England were opposed to slavery but they were not opposed to the markets available in the South.) In September 1862 after a Union "victory" at Antietam (Sharpsburg) Lincoln announcd the Emancipation Proclamation. This was in large part a foreign relations statement. By changing the War to one against slavery rather than simply preserving the Union, Lincoln made it morally untenable for foreign governments to come to the aid of the South.

Even the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves. It only freed those in states or parts of states that were still controlled by the Confederates as of January 1, 1863.

Answer 5

He believed no man should be enslaved, but he did not believe that the black was equal to the white. Sad but true. The abolishment of slavery started long before the civil war even started. Example, the USS Constitution, a Naval warship of the time and still commisioned to this day, was under strict orders to give chase, overtake and arrest any ship found carrying slaves. They were to take the slaves back to Africa and bring the Captain of the slave ship back to the US for trial. This was taking place in late 1850's and continued on through to the civil war until she was needed back here at home to fight.

Answer 6

God love the American Propoganda machine! LOL
Lincoln didnt care about equality and rights. He is quoted as having said if he could he would allow the south to keep slaves so long as it preserved the Union and there was no war.

Lincoln was a man of his era - he was brought up believing Slavery was not THAT bad. It was the government around him that forced the abolition of slavery and as a result of such anti-slavery moments caused a rift in north south relations that resulted in civil war.

Lincoln fought not to end slavery but to preserve that nation. Nothing more nothing less

Answer 7

Actually he wasn't opposed to slavery, he was afraid that the southern States would leave the union, along with pressure from northern manufacturing complaining about the free labor in the south.
Much like the folks today complaining about Asins producing goods so cheap now.

Answer 8

The more time that passes, the more myths are shown for what they really are.

Answer 9

What a sad bunch of answers! (well, most of them) This NEW mythology is far more distorted than the old!!

I don't know how to briefly correct all the misunderstandings and distortions, but I'll make a start. Sorry for it's length, but I'm passionate about this. I hope this helps.

First, to paint Lincoln as an abolitionist or as free from any taint of racism would be inaccurate. But anyone who has actually read his speeches and any leading scholars on Lincoln knows this. . . it is not some new discovery.

And by the way, note that it's all public record. It is not the difficult to look up what Lincoln said and did, to follow up on people's claims. If you do so, you will discover that the books by Bennett and DiLorenzo are sadly, pitiful distortions of Lincoln's views and record. (By the way, neither is a Lincoln scholar, and they hardly acknowledge the views of experts in the field.) They carefully cherrypick quotes that their readers may not have heard (but which any Lincoln fan knows well), ripping them out of context, to misrepresent Lincoln.

One minor example of taking something out of context is the quote, mentioned in one answer here, about Lincoln's sole purpose being to restore the Union, and that he would do so by freeing all or some or none of the slaves, whichever would work. In one sense this is true -- his OATH as President was, first of all, to uphold the Constitution and preserve the Union. But what those who cite this miss (besides all sorts of expressions mentioned below!) is that this statement was in an open letter to Horace Greely in AUGUST 1862, when Lincoln had already drafted the Emancipation Proclamation and told his cabinet he was going to announce it as soon as the Union armies had a victory! In other words, Lincoln was already planning this move!! And he was acting, in various ways, to prepare people for it!

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MAIN SOURCES to consult --

Whatever else you read on the subject, here are some links to Lincolns' own work:

Lincoln's collected writings
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3253
for a small taste of Lincoln' statements on slavery (but again)
http://www.nps.gov/archive/liho/slavery/al01.htm


For a fuller study of his speeches & actions in this area, esp. as President, check out the articles on this site:
http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org/inside.asp?ID=3&subjectID=1


A few highlights:

The "Cooper Union Address" of February 1860 (the speech that won him Eastern support and finally the Republican nomination). Note that the address is ALL rooted in the Republican view that slavery was a moral evil. And Lincoln spends much of the speech carefully laying out a case (against the Dred Scott decision) that the founders ALSO thought slavery evil and acted with a view to limiting it and expecting it gradually to die out.

text of the speech -http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm
summary of arguments - http://www.nps.gov/archive/liho/cooper/cooper.htm#_Ref516392123


Earlier stuff -- Oct 1854 Peoria speech & Lincoln-Douglas speeches that mention social IN-equality + suggest emigration as a solution (suggested more because he thought the former slaves would not be well-treated in this country)
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=lincoln;cc=lincoln;type=simple;rgn=div1;q1=peoria;view=text;subview=detail;sort=occur;idno=lincoln2;node=lincoln2%3A282
http://www.bartleby.com/251/12.html
http://www.bartleby.com/251/61.html

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Here are some good materials to COUNTER the irresponsible book by DiLorenzo, including reviews, a debate between DiLorenzo and Lincoln scholar Harry Jaffa:
http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/dilorenz.htm
http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/Spring2002/krannawitter.html
http://www.independent.org/tii/forums/020507ipfTrans.html
http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/oped/owens/00/jaffa.html
http://www.claremont.org/writings/010730jaffa.html.

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A bit more on Lincoln's personal VIEW. Note that from at least the mid 1850s he was VERY clear that he considered slavery an evil, and wished its end (Lincoln-Douglas debates, Cooper Union Address in February 1860, and many statements and letters as President)

He had, in fact, for years argued that slavery contradicted the Declaration of Independence (That's the source of his citation of "the proposition that all men are created equal" in his Gettysburg address... but he'd made this point for years!)

From the Lincoln-Douglas debates -- here's what he said RIGHT AFTER the quotes now being touted about Lincoln's not seeking social equality for blacks:
"I hold that notwithstanding all this [the current racial inequalities], there is no reason in the world why the ***** is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. . . In the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of any living man."

Whatever Lincoln's personal opinions about the native abilities of blacks and whites -- and note that practically everyone in his day, including most abolitionists, to some extent tended to think of blacks as in some way inferior -- he was certainly NOT a "white supremacist" in any meaningful sense of the term. (He DID care about the plight of slaves and was NOT looking for ways to 'keep them down'.)

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Many base their re-interpretation of Lincoln on MIS-understandings about the Emancipation Proclamation, why Lincoln issued it as he did, and what ELSE he was doing.

Some claim Lincoln didn't care about the slaves because he didn't declare those in the UNION free. But Lincoln recognized the Constitutional AND political limits of the President (and Congress) and that he could not, as President, simply declare slaves free.

a) the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Taney (author of the Dred Scott decision) would likely strike down any overreach by Lincoln very quickly (They had already done so with other war actions, and very nearly even done so with the Union's naval blockade, so critical to eventual success!)

b) To sustain the political support he needed (e.g., to keep other border states from seceding) he had to proceed with caution -- leading, but not by such a distance (as radical abolitionists often wished to) that the nation would refuse to follow

c) note, contra what many say, the Proclamation DID free many -- it IMMEDIATELY established the freedom of those who had fled (guaranteeing they would not be returned), and brought freedom to each area as the Union armies advanced


And note the FULL strategy Lincoln was using

a) FIRST, tried to convince the border slave-states still in the Union to accept compensated emancipation (they balked)

b) the Emancipation Proclamation -- based on his WAR POWERS
See also: Allen Guelzo, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation: The End of Slavery - introduced at:
http://www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org/Library/newsletter.asp?ID=1&CRLI=64
Lincoln carefully drafted this document NOT as a rhetorically lofty statement, but as a careful LEGAL document that could withstand a challenge in the federal courts.

c) continued, ultimately successful efforts, to push border states (Ky, Md) to legally end slavery

d) push for passage of the 13th amendment -- which he did through speeches, pushing for its inclusion in the 1864 party platform, logrolling, and pushing through the statehood vote for Nevada to gain extra votes for ratification. (Lincoln also suggested that at least some blacks, including those who had served in the military, should be given the franchise.)
http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org/inside.asp?ID=56&subjectID=3
See also Michael Vorenberg's book, Final Freedom: The Civil War, The Abolition of Slavery, and the Thirteenth Amendment, featured at:
http://www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom.org/Library/newsletter.asp?ID=18&CRLI=95


Incidentally, the idea that the Proclamation freed no one is absurd. On the contrary, it IMMEDIATELY established the freedom of many fugitive slaves, encouraged others to flee (thus ensuring their own freedom-- they would NOT be returned), and meant that, whenever the Union army was able to take a territory, its slaves would immediately be free as well.

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Frederick Douglass attested to Lincoln's genuine respect for him and other blacks and to the wisdom of his course of action in obtaining BOTH the preservation of the Union (his sworn duty as President) and the freeing of the slaves. In an 1876 speech he said:

"His great mission was to accomplish two things: first, to save his country from dismemberment and ruin; and second, to free his country form the great crime of slavery. To do one or the other, or both, he needed the earnest sympathy and the powerful cooperation of his loyal fellow countrymen. Without those primary and essential conditions to success his efforts would have been utterly fruitless. Had he put the abolition of slavery before the salvation of the Union, he would have inevitably driven from him a powerful class of the American people and rendered resistance to rebellion impossible. From the genuine abolition view, Mr. Lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent, but measuring him by the sentiment of his country — a sentiment he was bound as a statesman to consult — he was swift, zealous, radical and determined."
http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org/inside.asp?ID=1&subjectID=1