If a tree falls in the jungle (read on)?

Question

If a tree falls in the jungle and there is no one around to hear it does it make a sound ?

If someone walks past a market stall and takes an apple without paying and no one spots them or misses the apple, then has a crime really been commited ?

Answer 1

To steal an apple is not such a big "crime". I wil tell you a story.
The other day my little boy came home with an orange that he had " picked " up from the grocery store in our neighborhood.
He explained to me with great emotion how he had done it with the complicity of his best friend and that the lady did not see them. When my turn came to speak I gave him a loving lecture why it was absolutely wrong to have done it. I don't know if he understood all the reasons I gave him but I am sure that he accepted them because " of love ". He loves me, so do I. So I sent him back to the grocery store to give excuses to the lady and money to pay for the stolen orange.
So the answer to your stolen apple depends on the age of the person commiting the "crime" and what useful learning experience can be deduced from it.

Answer 2

1) If the tree falls in the jungle, and there is no one -- and by that I gather you include no animals, no insects, and are assuming that other trees have no capacity to detect sound waves . . . i.e., NOTHING -- around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The answer is no. The reason is because while a sound wave may be produced, sound is defined though the act of hearing, not the physical presence of sound waves, which is why we can hear sounds in dreams, even when no sound waves are produced. A sound wave would simply be another physical phenomena if there were nothing to translate that into the subjective experience of sound. In otherwords, sound is defined, fundamentally, as a subjective event. The objective events alone are not sufficient for the existence of sound. Again, we know sound is possible without the existence of sound waves, as in the case of dreams, so it is inappropriate to define sound in terms of sound waves, since we can find examples of sound existing without sound waves. On the otherhand, we cannot find the existence of sound apart from actually experiencing it. So the most accurate definition of sound is something that is heard.

If sound is something that is heard, then if nothing hears it, it doesn't exist as a sound.

2) If someone walks past a market stall and takes an apple without paying . . . no one witnesses, remembers, or suffers from the crime . . . has a crime been commited?

Yes. For one, the perpetrator of the crime witnesses the event, even if no one else does. But more fundamentally, a crime is defined in terms of a series of objective events, not subjective ones. So, the act of stealing is NOT defined by one person feeling or thinking or believing that another person stole something from them, but rather is defined by whether that person actually DID take something from them, which is why we have elaborate courts and systems of laws in order to prove or disprove whether or not such an event occured. If stealing were defined merely by subjective terms, then no one would ever have to prove a case or provide evidence of wrongdoing. So crimes are defined by objective facts, either the event really happened, or it did not, not by subjective events such as a person feeling like you stole from them. Missing the apple and/or witnessing the crime are subjective events, and therefore don't have anything to do with whether or not a crime was commited objectively. So if someone takes an apple without paying, regardless of whether anyone sees them or not, or misses the apple, a crime has still been commited.

Answer 3

Two very different questions!

Stealing is stealing taking what is not yours is a crime. Same way as if you killed someone but didn't get caught, it would still be a crime.

As for the trees, well it depends on your definition of a sound. Does it have to be heard to be a sound? If so then the answer is no. But we know that the conditions to make a sound are there i.e there is a pressure wave traveling through the jungle but is that a sound when its not heard? I would say the answer is Yes.

Answer 4

How can you be sure that noone misses the apple? Chaos theory may suggest that the lack of income from that apple will cause the trader to reduce next week's order, which is the straw that breaks the camel's back for the grower and he goes out of business, and lays off the very person who stole the apple.

All actions are connected, therefore the apple is in some way missed, even if it by the worms that would have eaten it if it was thrown away, therefore lack of compost may cause crop failuer etc.

It is a crime and the perpetrator should have their hand cut off

Answer 5

The definition of sound involves the production of a wave in a material which can be detected by the ear or by electronic equipment (for sub- and supersonic sounds). Because the falling tree produces such a wave in the air (and ground) around the tree, a sound is technically produced. The wave is there - no ear necessary.

Similarly, the crime of stealing doesn't need a witness. Stealing as a crime is defined as taking something that doesn't belong to you without the permission of the owner. The stealing happened - no witness necessary.

Answer 6

The tree question. No. For a phenomenon to qualify as sound the following prerequisites apply: (a) an ear must be present to transform vibrations, and (b) a brain must be present to be conscious of the phenomenon of noise.

The apple question (much more interesting and debateable!). Yes. Although no one has missed the apple, somewhere along the line someone has worked and not been remunerated for their effort. Someone else has profited from that effort without reciprocating, and has therefore stolen that time and effort. Unless you think that the fruits of the planet belong to us all?

Answer 7

if a tree falls it would make the same noise if someone was there or not, could be proven using recording equiptment. if someone takes an apple without paying it is still theft, and therefore a crime has been commited, the fact that noone knew is irrelevant

Answer 8

If you write a poem and no one reads it does that mean that you did not write anything. If no one was there how do you know a tree has fallen. If some one takes anything and does not pay then it is still theft only their conscience will be troubled. If you turn out all the lights does that mean that everything in the room no longer exists. What you perceive is what is real to you.

Answer 9

Part 1 (the tree) - the argument is not strong because the action itself is physical and combines our understanding of physics with our reaction to it, so I would say yes it does: there's a difference between a sound being 'made' and a sound being 'heard' - just because it wasn't heard doesn't mean it wasn't made.

Part 2 (the apple) - the apple had an owner before it was taken, which is theft and certainly a crime. Crime isn't determined by the reaction to it but by the statute which a society usually agrees to conform to.

Answer 10

yes to both!

I've never understood the tree one - obviously it still makes a sound. Its like saying the tree never existed because no one ever saw it, which is, of course, rubbish.

millions of crimes go unnoticed every day - the fact that someone intentionally stole something, knowing they should have paid and didn't makes it a crime regardless of who knows about it. the stall holder may not notice the apple missing, but he's 30p profit down (or however much an apple costs)