how do i converse with a creationist?

Question

this guy at work is a creationist /integeint design advocate and he allways wants to argue with me. Im not a biologist at all but I know some natural history and I love to learn about real science (not theology). How can i deal with thier standard arguments like the falgilum of a virius must be a machine or that random mutaion is the same as a 747 being put toghetr by a tornado?

Answer 1

Bacterial flaggellum and the immune system have been shown NOT to be irreducibly complex - check out PubMed for actual, peer-reviewed papers. Which the Discovery Institute has none of, since they spend all their money on PR and none on actual research.

Things creationists tend to forget when doing thier 'probability calculations' is that once evolution gets something right, it gets to keep it. Sure, the odds of a hundred monkeys ever randomly producing Hamlet are next to nothing, but the odds go WAY up when they get to keep every right letter in sequence. Which is more along the lines of what evolution does.

Good luck - it can be frustrating, I know. Check out here for more help http://www.talkorigins.org .

Answer 2

I've never heard those standard arguments. The standard argument I hear is that the human eye is so vastly complex that it would seem impossible to develop by a series of random mutations. It is complex, but I don't think it would be impossible for it to develop through mutations, given enough time and enough need for such a body part.

Here's one I read on yahoo answers:

If we were really created by an intelligent designer, then why is the tube we use to breath right up next to the tube we use to consume food? That doesn't seem like a very intelligent design. This person put it this way: Think about intelligent design the next time your choking on food. You would think an intelligent designer would have put some distance between these two tubes so that there would be no chance of death by choking. Along this line, the design of our knees is terrible. Doesn't hold up for very long. Engineers have talked about how a better, more durable design would have been to put our knees facing behind us rather than in front of us. It would absorb the shock of running better and last longer.

Barring those arguments, I usually bow out of such discussions by pointing out that evolution and intelligent design don't have the same foundations. Evolutionists do not accept the philosophical basis of intelligent design. I.D. proponents do not accept the scientific basis of evolution. No common ground, which means no point in arguing.

Hope this helps.

Answer 3

1. Viruses don't have flagella. LOL.

2. God is the ultimate 747. If you can't imagine a 747 being put together by a tornado, how the heck can you imagine God being put together out of Chaos and Void?

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Anyway, here's my take on Intelligent Design:

a) When I woke up this morning, I put on my glasses. Repeat: I put on my glasses. An intelligent design of my eyes would have given me muscles to focus without needing glasses.
b) When I was 25 years old, I had two wisdom teeth removed. An intelligent design of my jaw would have had ample space for all the teeth that were going to be growing there. An intelligent design of tooth growth would have had the third set of molars grow in when I was a baby -- just like all the other teeth did.
c) A friend of mine had surgery to have her appendix removed. An intelligent design of our digestive system would either not have an appendix, or would change its size and shape to make it much less prone to inflammation.

There is no intelligent designer. We have too many design flaws that an intelligent designer would not have incorporated.

Answer 4

If you would like to intelligently refute creationism and ID and all that nonsense I suggest you read Dr. Richard Dawkins' most recent book on the subject, "The God Delusion". He tears creationism a new one.

Some main points to start on include:

1. Evolution is an incredibly slow process when looking at it from the first signs of life to humans. It seems so weird to us that it would be even possible, but thats because we usually don't appreciate the time scale involved....we are looking at BILLIONS of years. A great analogy would be to put your arm out parallel to the ground and imagine that from your chest to your fingertip is the history of life on earth. The length of time taken up by humans would be the few specks of dust you could blow off of the tip of your nail.

Yes, evolution and natural selection generating more complex and improved biological systems is a highly unlikely process, but the sheer amount of time that has allowed for it to occur is what makes it feasible.

The easiest thing to ask a creationist to do is provide one shred of testable evidence that God exists, or that the world is 6000 years old. Theres enough to fill libraries with data stating the opposite.

Answer 5

You cannot converse with this guy unless he repeats sixth grade Science. There are few other theories he can discuss. Like electrical theory, or the theory that the Earth revolves around the Sun, or the theory of what an atom is composed of. However, chances are that he doesn't know a theory from his *** or a hole in the ground. If it were me I would find someone else to talk with.

Answer 6

Your best approach is probably to stay out of the argument entirely. Creationists have a zillion web sites that prepare their arguments for them, and they are not about to change their points of view in this lifetime. Bottom line: one is faith and one is science. You are not arguing from the same premise. Talk about fishing or cars instead.

And if he tells you that a virus has a flagellum -- he's wrong.

Answer 7

A creationist has complete and total faith in their beliefs. No matter how hard you try win your debate with them on evolution, you can't. They don't see logic or reason- faith does that. That is why they call it faith. Just tell your friend that you don't to talk about it. Just pulling out a science textbook will make it worse.

Answer 8

If you are really looking to just converse, why don't you tell him that you respect his beliefs, and you need to agree to disagree. Decide not to discuss that issue, so you can interact. If by converse - you mean debate the issue - good friggin luck. There isn't a creationist in the world that is going to bend to your points, they are rigid as all hell.

Answer 9

Just tell him that:

1. His faith will be fulfilled in the afterlife - his proselytizing makes it sound as though he doubts the Bible.

2. Tell him, as I do, that it's 'way more important to him than it is to you, and you'd rather discuss why the Bears fell apart in the Super Bowl.

Answer 10

I find the best way to deal witht hat type is to just smile and nod.

I never argue with someone that far gone, just smile, nod and try to get away before he starts to define falgilum. . .