Why won't this country learn its lesson from the failures of so-called "feminism"?

Question

Ok, first off, I'm a woman myself and I believe in women being respected and decently treated as human beings. But I am not a feminist for several reasons. The so-called feminist movement has caused more problems for women than there were to begin with. I support women in the workplace, but only if the father stays at home or if both parents work part-time, otherwise they won't have time to supervise and raise their kids enough which has resulted in so many problems. Also, certain women have this skewed idea in their heads that I cannot wrap my head around that promiscuity and abortions somehow "empower" women. They don't empower women but the total opposite. I've also noticed that in attempt to gain respect, women have lost respect from men by being vulgar and promiscuous. Men actually used to respect women more than they do today, you know, chivalry? Now thanks to feminism, chivalry no longer exists since it resulted in decline of morals and respect for both men and women.

"Sex before marriage and single parents have been around for eons"

Not anywhere NEAR as much

moosie judging by your response you didn't even read my post

Answer 1

you make some good points, but it's not just feminism that is singularly guilty, it just seems, sadly, that these sort of effects are the nature of so-called "movements." Females had plenty of legitimate gripes at the outset of the movement, but, it's obvious leaders and active members of "movements" don't pack up and go home when their sensible and defensible goals have been achieved. They just seek to unlevel the playing field in their favor, use their power to get more (just like governments), etc., etc. They also tend to let anger override reason, at least when seeking the greatest media exposure. Controversy gets the most attention. Reasoned arguments and rational thinking gets buried behind the five-day weather reports and the "male enhancement" pill ads.

History offers few more salient and obvious lessons than this. I could make a hundred comparisons, but for the sake of brevity I'll let one suffice. The American labor movement, born in response to ruthless exploitation of workers in a time when capitalism had no governors, it mutated into an organized crime operated monstrosity whose leaders succeeded in driving American manufacturing into the dirt while pretending to serve their membership so they could become filthy rich on the gullibility of those they were charged with representing.

As I said, I could go on and on. But it's just they way of things. The pendulum effect. The fiery rhetoric generated in response to real wrongs just keeps getting generated until it threatens and often even eradicates the legitimate gains it secured when there were legitimate gains to be had. And that creates a backlash, as surely as night follows day.

Seems people would have figured it all out by now, but no such luck.

Answer 2

“But I am not a feminist for several reasons..”
Since you haven’t defined the term, how can anyone know what it is you are talking about? Just how do YOU define “feminism”? We all need to be on the same page BUT…since you haven’t bothered I will do it for you:

“In simple terms, feminism, as the logical response to sexism, is a belief in the social, political and economic equality of the sexes, and a movement organized around the conviction that biological sex should not be the pre-determinant factor shaping a person's social identity or socio-political or economic rights.”

You say: ‘I support women in the workplace, but only if the father stays at home or if both parents work part-time, otherwise they won't have time to supervise and raise their kids…”
Two part-time incomes don’t cut it anymore. People can’t live on that. Many couples haven’t got such LUXURY. Perhaps you should be out ‘there” getting politically active and lobbying for quality, government-subsidised daycare facilities? Other countries have such a system, why is the USA so backwards? Oh, right I almost forgot: you guys don't even have universal HEALTH CARE yet! What about the responsibility of the employer? Corporate CEO’s pay themselves literally millions of dollars each and every year - the top 1% of the population owns well over 90% of the nations wealth: don’t tell me corporations can’t afford to pitch in or even create their OWN facilities!

Regarding abortion and ‘promiscuity”:
What is ‘promiscuous” to one person may not be to another. Morality is ENTIRELY subjective so don't go there. As Pierre Trudeau said 30 years ago: “the nation has no business in the bedrooms of the people”.

Precisely WHY is the work of stay-at-home-mothers devalued? Because it's considered 'woman's work' and we live in a sexist society, du-uh!! Were you guys born yesterday? It's ALWAYS been like this, 'second wave' or not. It astounds me that you people simply CANNOT put the puzzle pieces together.

Please explain to me why in Scandinavia (where there is government-subsidised daycare, universal health insurance, and much more) the children are doing better than in America? Could it have something to do with the extreme poverty single mothers in America face every day? This is a function of the of the unequal distribultion of wealth. Interestingly, the rate of children born 'out of wedlock' is substancially higher in Scandinavia than it is in the USA and yet the kids fare much better. Simply put, these societies don't permit people to suffer AS much. There is a social safety net in place to identify - and to help - the weakest and most vulnerable segments of society.

"“LONDON (Reuters) Feb. 14, 2007 - Britain is the worst country in the industrialized world in which to be a child, closely followed by the United States, the United Nations Children's Fund said on Wednesday.The United States was ranked worst for health and safety and only Britain scored lower for relationships and risky or bad behavior. The highest ranking for the United States was for education where it was ranked 12th out of the 21 countries”.

Answer 3

That's the way that Propaganda works. They try to frame public opinion by using different buzzwords to portray the same picture from different perspectives. Bush's grandpa funded Hitler and his daddy ran the CIA. Bush knows all about how to use propaganda. The PKK has been attacking Turkish civilians in Turkey with American weapons that were funnelled to them. Even the puppet government of Iraq considers the PKK to be a terrorist organization.

Answer 4

Betty do you think that you would have the opportunity to post on a computer or have any freedom at all if it had not been for feminism and similar movements to gain freedom for others. Feminism involves much more than women. Ending oppression in all forms which also include racism and religious intolerance. Not to mention rallying for those disabled or elderly. Get a grip on the fundamentals of feminism. The women that sleep around and swear and act vulgar would probably be appalled at the thought of being called a feminist.

Answer 5

There have always been problems in society. Before feminism women were treated as slaves. Women could not own property even. Up until 1977 in the state of Georgia women were not allowed to own property. There is respectability out there. It has more to do with the actual personality of a person.People are going to do what they are going to do no matter what society says.Sex before marriage and single parents have been around for eons.LOOK HERE for a minute- What if a woman is in a relationship where her husband or boyfriend is abusive toward her and her children? Stay for the sake of looking respectable? But wait how is that person supposed to make ends meet? - uh get a full time job and put the kids in daycare.People do what they have to do and make the best of what they have.
You must be very inexperienced in the real world.

Answer 6

Dude, you should try living in some backward islamic shithole like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan before you go spouting off some garbage. Like me, you'd run back here, thankful every day of your little life that feminism gave you the right to support yourself, get an education, obtain credit, buy and home and belongings that are yours, obtain custody of your own children, drive a car, and move about freely. We see how horrifying patriarchy can be in its extremes. Give me my feminism and my freedom. Shove the chivalry and false respect crap, because no man really respects a woman in a patriarchy, let alone loves one. I can hold my own doors, thanx. I'm proud to be a feminist. Unlike you, I don't CARE what men think.

Answer 7

Yes, lots of oppression of women in history, even recent (35 years ago) history. I think the real problem with feminism is manifesting it in the home. Women need to be accountable for the men they choose to shack up with and marry; just because a woman chooses a louse doesn't mean that all men are pigs.

Answer 8

I agree that the feminist movement does have a downside. Namely that women are expected to provide an income, raise a family, sustain a marriage/partnership, do most (if not all) of the housework all at the same time. From what I have seen, stay at home mums who run around after kids all day are generally looked upon as lazy or sponging of their husbands, very sad.

Answer 9

Dear Betty Bop Mae,

Male domination has won, in your case. You are so deeply ensconced in male dominance that you cannot even see how contradictory your statements are. You say that abortions don't empower women - I assume you mean that having the right to get an abortion, i.e. a woman's right to decide about her OWN BODY - doesn't represent progress? I'd have to disagree with you on that one.

You also say that "...in the attempt to gain respect [from men], women have lost respect." Why should women make any special attempt to gain respect from men? Look around you! Today's over-pornulated society does not exactly signify men's undying respect for women, does it? Women (and men) should strive to gain respect from themselves.

Your perspective is that af a male. Try stepping over to our side of the table.

Answer 10

Did it ever occur to you that you so called "problems" were the goal of those who funded feminism ? Traditional women had the bad habit of getting pregnant too much at home, thats why you need to keep them busy with a career or the like.