Have High Schools gone overboard with pushing AP Courses?

Question

I work for a district in New York that is ALL about the numbers! It doesn't matter how many kids take and fail the Advanced Placement exam... It just matters to them how many kids take the courses for some reason. The result is a bunch of ill-prepared, frustrated students taking a class that is develomentally inappropriate for them! What are your thoughts/ experiences?

Manda- out of the twenty seven kids in my AP Course, only about six or seven of them have an actual love for the subject and are truly "advanced". The rest of them take the course because either their parents or the Guidance Dept. Pushes them into it. They see it as a social status and most often LACK the work ethic and skill to be there. It's truly a PROBLEM in my district and in many others across the state.

Answer 1

Rating high schools based on the numbers of students taking AP classes gives the schools incentive to boost those numbers, as you are experiencing, which can lead to admitting students who are ill-suited to the demands of AP and "dumbing-down" the classes. I am sorry to hear that these sorts of misuses of the AP program are happening in your school.
A more reasonable rating would include both total students taking AP classes and the percentage scoring a 3 or higher on the AP exam, which is generally considered "passing", although some universities require a higher score for course credit.

My experience teaching AP courses has been positive. I was in a small public school with a strong AP program, led by an outstanding teacher, and the AP teachers maintained a high level of rigor in their classes. The conventional wisdom was that AP classes were demanding, but rewarding, and the students, principal, counselor, and most parents all accepted that. This discouraged students who were not willing to take on a demanding class from entering. But, many of us recruited students who we knew were unlikely to score well on the AP exam because we felt the students would benefit from the class itself.
I am certain that those students who made 2's, 1's, or did not even take the exam benefitted from taking the classes. I know that they learned a significant amount of material that they otherwise would not have learned. I also strongly believe that they learned much more than just the content of the classses. The expectations of a college level course, the academic rigor, the pace, the amount of content, the skills to adapt to this type of class. All these will help students when they enter college. Most importantly, for many students, just keeping up with the class gave them the confidence that they could be successful in college.
I took a group of AP students to visit a near-by university and we sat in on the corresponding college class. After the class one of the students, who would go on to score a 2 on the AP exam and who was uncertain that she could handle going to a university , said "They weren't any smarter than us!". You could see the realization that she, a strong but not exceptional student, a black girl from a tiny rural school, could indeed "hang" with the students at this big, scary university. She will get her bachelor's degree this May, and I think that a small part of the reason she, and many other students from our high school, has been successful in college is the AP classes she took, even though she didn't score high enough to earn college credit.

Answer 2

The high school that my daughter attended here in Illinois is caught up in the same 'numbers' game. Previously, AP classes had prereqs, and were only open with instructors approval. BUT, after US News and World Report, and other like publications, started ranking high schools based on the absurd criteria of how many students were taking AP courses, the doors were opened to all students. And are even offered to sophomores. The result? Yes, more students taking the AP classes, but they are not necessarily doing well. Since the classes are weighted, if you make a 'D', you are still getting credit for a 'C'.

My daughter took the AP class her senior year that is open to sophomores. It was European History. Most of the students were overwhelmed. They did not have the study skills or the background in literature that they needed to be successful in the class. Her teacher told her what a pleasure it was to finally have a student that could hold her own in a class discussion, that understood the connections that were made.

What seems to be happening is that AP courses are being dumbed down as a result of the opening enrollment. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but lowering standards so the poorly prepared student isn't frustrated is not doing any student in the class a favor. The 'research' that my daughter was asked to do was absurd. She never had to cite her sources, never learned how to research with paper resources, and was never asked to produce any paper of any significant length. It was a real shock when she was given her first assignment in college to produce a 8-10 page paper, and was NOT allowed to use internet resources. And she had a week.

As to the perk of getting college credit for AP, remember it is not the class that counts, but the score on the exam. And, not all universities/colleges treat the scores the same way. The private college my daughter attends gives the student a unit credit for a score of 5 or above. It does not exempt a student from any class.


Until the high schools are held accountable for the number of students PASSING the AP exams, bragging about the number of students taking courses is just hot air.

Answer 3

Teaching or taking an AP course should be college level although many students are not. This is the dilema. Although many 'kids' are placed in this advanced courses, their intentions alone do not take them far enough. As a teacher myself I consider that these courses should be offered to only those who meet certain criteria. I teach the A.P. Literature course and every student of mine is required to meet very high expectations.

I must be brutally honest and admit that only about half of my class pass the exam. Furthermore, my nights and weekends are often times spent reviewing, giving practice exams, correcting papers, organizing a lesson plan, and so on and so forth. I do all this work to come to a devastating dissapointment more times that I dare admit: Students not meeting the deadline or not completing assigments ( in order to make sure they do the reading I ask an average of 25-40 comprehension and 5-10 analytical questions daily; in addition they do 2 essays weekly and one research paper monthly)... Why do I keep my agony going? I guess because the connections, learning experiences, discussions, and 'Ah Ha' moments that I discover amidst this despair are very rewarding.

Am I a failure? Are the students ill prepared? Is the experience worth it?
These are questions that can only be answered in an individual basis. I can understand how some districts are caught in the statistics game and this is a disgrace indeed. As for myself, now in my tenth year of teaching (yes, I am still a rookie) I keep an open mind for new and improved ways of teaching, I try to make the experience as much college-like as possible (assignments, class format, projects, etc.) in order to better serve the purpose the class as it was originally intended to be.
I must conclude by stating that I am in favor of maintaining these A.P. courses open, but limited to those who demonstrate not only the intention and good will of taking a rigorous course,but the students who, after taking a placement test, or whatever requirement is given, merit the distinction of moving to an Advanced course.

Answer 4

OMG! Someone who I can agree with! AP courses are a waste! I think it's the same way it is in N.Y. as it is where I am from! My friends always bragged about how many AP classes they were taking and they would only score a 1 or 2 on the AP exams! And colleges usually take 4's and 5's in order to receive college credit. It's a waste of a class.

Answer 5

I have to come out in favor of AP classes here. They made me a sophomore by the end of my first quarter in college.

But, you're right. I think sometimes kids are pushed into classes they are ill prepared for just because their parents want them there or to improve the school's image. I think we do a similar disservice by pushing kids who don't belong in a traditional four year college on to those types of environments.

Answer 6

but you have to look toward the bright side as well...AP courses give students a chance to advance in areas they like. A student who loves math and is further ahead than other students is going to find his or her self bored in the regular class. If the class is used how it is supposed (for students who want to go further in that area and not as a way to say I have smarter students at my school than yours) then it is an awesome idea.

Answer 7

Ya you are> I never did my home work once and I was a drug user and I dropped out I never went to collage and wow I'm a innovative automation's mechanical engineer and master machinist. How'd that happen. Like Edison and Bell I taught myself