how does Evolution deal with the law of Entropy?

Question

Does the theory of Evolution kind'a counter the Law of Entropy? how can it compensate for that?

oh, get over yourselves. I asked a simple question because I don't know these things and would like to be enlightened. theres no need for name calling (even if you don't mean it directly at me) and you can leave you're stuck up, pompous rants about the flaws in other's thinking at the door.

Answer 1

The law says that, barring other influences, there is a tendency for systems to move toward disorder. Molecules spread out. That "barring other influences" is the key: the law (the second law of thermodynamics) does not stand alone. After all, imagine a whole bunch of rocks on the hillsides around a valley. An earthquake occurs, or some mountains goats walk around and the rocks roll down into the valley. They were spread out before but now they are together. Their coming together violates the law of entropy. So does two magnets coming together. So does icicles or crystals forming. So does your growth (oxygen molecules used to be spread out in the atmosphere, but now they are together (with carbons and hydrogens) in your cells). Evolution doesn't have to "deal" with the law of entropy any more than do a theories for how gravity works or how magnets attract. Evolution provides a physical explanation for the origin and change of species. That's all.

Answer 2

The second law of thermodynamics is sometimes called the law of entropy. The second law of thermodynamics is not a law as much as it as a general concept. There isn't a single definitive statement of the second law - it is stated in numerous contexts, with a variety of caveats, such that some versions of the law aren't entirely the same thing. The definition of entropy is equally vague. So the answer to your question depends on which definitions you choose to use.

If you interpret the second law of thermodynamics to be the simple notion that disorder tends to increase in a system with time, then evolution violates this law. If you add the caveat that the second law applies only to closed systems, then its not clear if the second law is even relevant to evolution because ecological systems can be viewed as either open or closed systems depending on the frame of reference. There is one alternative view point where some scientists define entropy as the most probable state. When defined this way, any system at equilibrium or tending toward equilibrium, is consistent with the second law of thermodynamics.

Anyhow, the fossil record shows a tendency that is exactly opposite of increasing disorder, at least as far as individual organisms are concerned. The earliest organisms were relatively simple compared to the array of complexity among organisms that exists today. The physiology of the nervous system and endocrine systems are vastly complex and we still don't know exactly how these systems function. If systems are supposed to become more disorganized with time, that hasn't happened in terms of species evolution. But when a living organism dies, it returns to a disorganized state, so you could argue that the reason that organisms die is because of the second law of thermodynamics, and that the increasing level of organization while organisms are living is irrelevant because all individuals end up as a pile of dust once they die.

Answer 3

I in the present day have a severe headache. this might properly be an exceptionally historical, drained argument so once I provide an evidence for why this does not artwork i might appreciably comprehend it is going to you're able to tell your fellow creationists to stop utilising it. in certainty the 2nd regulation states (in simplified words) that for the duration of a closed technique the quantity of attainable power is fastened, and on the comparable time it is not created or destroyed, it does become extra ineffective over the years as there is continuously some lost to the technique. yet do you spot the mandatory element suitable right here? CLOSED technique. The Earth is an open physique of strategies provided that the quantity of handy power in the international isn't in all threat consistent. it incredibly is often "crowned up" with the help of way of the photograph voltaic. this enables for community dispositions in the path of order. Now i comprehend you're usually thinking that the universe is a closed technique and which would be suited. The power flows from the photograph voltaic to the Earth allowing for a close-by cut back in entropy, whether this must be compensated for with the help of potential of a bigger advance in the entropy of the sunlight. the whole cyber web entropy of the universe besides the actuality that will advance, the 2nd regulation holds real. The creationist argument on the subject of the 2nd regulation might actually render progression impossible. What occurs to human beings? we are born, and we advance to adulthood. that's tendency in the direction of order. The human physique as a closed physique of strategies is a state countless the time usually called "lifeless". Your physique is attempting to attain equilibrium with the exterior environment whilst it finally does you're a chilly lifeless corpse. You advance by using actuality that the human physique is an open technique you take in power in the kind of nutrients and oxygen. it incredibly is largely the equivalent theory with evolution.

Answer 4

While you are right, the earth is not a closed system, the universe is. The energy output by the sun comes from somewhere, actually from the sun's vast quantity of nuclear fuel, the somewhat organized molecules being dissipated across the universe in a random way. But we do know that randomness increases and does not decrease. I know I don't understand parts of this, like the idea that if entropy decreased, broken china would mend itself. But, you would expect that the species would become more diverse to increase entropy and we know that does not happen, at least to any great extent. But I think we have to take into account that entropy is not decreasing. And as one ancestor species can evolve into more than one species then we could say that entropy is increasing.

Answer 5

I think that what you mean by "The Law of Entropy" is more accurately called the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy is just a measure of useful energy.

This law only applies to closed systems. Truly closed systems do not exist, even in a laboratory.

What the Second Law of Thermodynamics actually states is, "No process is possible in which the sole result is the transfer of energy from a cooler to a hotter body." [Atkins, 1984, The Second Law, pg. 25]

Creationists, whether by ignorance or purpose, misconstrue what the second law states and what it means.

"Now you may be scratching your head wondering what this has to do with evolution. The confusion arises when the 2nd law is phrased in another equivalent way, "The entropy of a closed system cannot decrease." Entropy is an indication of unusable energy and often (but not always!) corresponds to intuitive notions of disorder or randomness. Creationists thus misinterpret the 2nd law to say that things invariably progress from order to disorder.

"However, they neglect the fact that life is not a closed system. The sun provides more than enough energy to drive things. If a mature tomato plant can have more usable energy than the seed it grew from, why should anyone expect that the next generation of tomatoes can't have more usable energy still? Creationists sometimes try to get around this by claiming that the information carried by living things lets them create order. However, not only is life irrelevant to the 2nd law, but order from disorder is common in nonliving systems, too. Snowflakes, sand dunes, tornadoes, stalactites, graded river beds, and lightning are just a few examples of order coming from disorder in nature; none require an intelligent program to achieve that order. In any nontrivial system with lots of energy flowing through it, you are almost certain to find order arising somewhere in the system. If order from disorder is supposed to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, why is it ubiquitous in nature?

"The thermodynamics argument against evolution displays a misconception about evolution as well as about thermodynamics, since a clear understanding of how evolution works should reveal major flaws in the argument. Evolution says that organisms reproduce with only small changes between generations (after their own kind, so to speak). For example, animals might have appendages which are longer or shorter, thicker or flatter, lighter or darker than their parents. Occasionally, a change might be on the order of having four or six fingers instead of five. Once the differences appear, the theory of evolution calls for differential reproductive success. For example, maybe the animals with longer appendages survive to have more offspring than short-appendaged ones. All of these processes can be observed today. They obviously don't violate any physical laws."

The links below explain in more detail exactly how creationists misuse and wrongly apply the second law, as well as other creationist psuedoscience and lies.

Don't get too angry if and when you realize that they are purposefully lying to you.

There is nothing wrong with believing BOTH in the bible and evolution. Someone just needs to explain it to them.

Answer 6

The second law of thermodynamics (entropy) applies only to closed systems.

The earths biosphere is not a closed system. Radiant heat and light from the sun enter from outside it and chemical and thermal energy seep up from below it. Local increases are not forbidden so long as the sum total of the system is a net decrease in complexity.

The complexity increase in the earths biosphere is infinitesimally small compared with the entropic conversion of matter to energy that powers it from within and without.

The sun fuses hydrogen into helium, this changes a small amount of the starting mass to energy which as blared out in all directions. The earth probably gets only a fraction of one percent of that energy. The rest screams out to dilute itself in the sterile wastes of the interstellar void. The earths heat comes courtesy of radio-thermal decay. Complex elements degrading into less complex elements releasing heat and radiation.

Both processes are entropic and operate on a scale that dwarfs the increase in complexity in the tiny soap bubble thin layer that the earth's biosphere occupies.

Answer 7

No, it does not run counter; and, in fact, evolution is supported by the Law of Maximum Entropy. Your question assumes that ever since the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and related posits by Boltzmann and others in their theories of Maximum disorder and the Law of Entropy (described as the tendency of dissimilar environments to seek uniformity through increasing disorder), that no new knowledge or progressive science exists regarding entropy.

Even in the basic law, that applies only to a closed system, absent outside influence. Earth's environment is not a closed system, and outside influences are constantly at work in it. In fact, natural selection actually takes into account outside influences, suggesting that organisms adapt and evolve to meet the potential dissonance produced by the outside influence (i.e., viruses are known to evolve in an effort to meet the outside challenge of anti-virals).

Additionally, the related and more complete theory of Maximum Entropy shows that evolution as a general process of dynamically ordered things that actively work to bring more order into the world is the production of an active order-producing world following directly from natural law. Since an ordered flow or progression produces disorder at a faster rate than a disordered, or non-progressive flow, then most scientists no longer feel that the Law of Entropy in any way disproves evolution; but, in fact, may support it.

It's kinda like water seeking its own level. If you have water at two levels (an inch, for example), with a pathway between them, it will flow toward equality (making both bodies of water at an equal level). But, if you open a larger and steeper flow between them, it will continue to flow down the first, but much more will flow much faster down the newer, less resistant path, until the two bodies reach equilibrium.

Since the orderly progression of organisms serves the purpose of natural law more efficiently, then progressive organisms are the natural path of nature, therefore supporting an evolution of organisms to higher, more efficient ones.

For those who continue to hold to the older theories of entropy, it's kinda like stopping your study of physics and geology in the the ninth grade of school, and then insisting that no newer or higher knowledge has emerged since then.

Answer 8

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (entropy) is only applicable in closed systems. The sun is constantly adding energy to the system - powering it, the earth is not a closed system.

Answer 9

Do you assume the Entropy is completely understood?

Answer 10

1) The earth is not a closed system, and

2) I'm not directing this at you; but it is somewhat entertaining that fundies grab the scientific laws/theories they pick & choose to use it to alternatively prove parts of genesis that they pick & choose.