help, sick goldfish...?

Question

expert help only. I am fairly experienced at keeping fish, so if you're gonna say something like "it's ick!" or any other type of uneducated guess, don't bother.

so I have 2 goldfish in a 30gallon tank in my room. they are both Ryukins. the first one I got around Christmas, and the newest one I got a few weeks ago. All the levels are perfect and I have two air stones. the largest is maybe 3in at most, and the younger one is an inch. the largest one I got because he has a deformed fin, the back one fold up over in an arch shape and hits him in the face a lot. the lady at the pet store tried to say he was just swimming funny then nearly ripped his fin off trying to show me, but it wouldn't sit normally.

Today I noticed my big one is staying at the top of the tank. this is not usual for him, he usually swims all over the place and loves chasing the snail I have in with them. he's just floatign and flipping his fins a lot. it's not swim bladder... more in added details.

it's not swim bladder because he's not tipping over or having difficulty swimming... it's just like he's weak. the littler one is fine, she seems quite upset that he is sick though, and is trying to keep him company.

please help, I really have no idea what is wrong with him. he eats plenty, everything in the tank is normal, and the other fish is fine. he has no symptoms of being sick, he's not even dull and still gets excited when he sees me, he just seems weak.

so, any ideas?

no, all my levels are great. and I just a 10-20% water change a few days ago.

Thanks, I'm flattered. I have checked everything and I really can't think of what could be wrong.

not frantically at all or like he's trying to stay up, he stays up just fine. he just flips them a bit when he wants to move, like when he's getting close to the wall or the filter. and sometimes to get over to where my other fish is. at first glance when he wouldn't leave the top I thought it was swim bladder also, but I'm certain it's not after watching him.

I'm really stumped, he doens't look sick except that he's just floating there, and he was young when I got him, so I know he's not just getting old.

any more details I notice I'll put up asap, thanks for all the help.

it's the Caudal fin (tail fin). here's a pic: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7493/johnnyrottnsb9.jpg

it doens't look that bad there except it's always curved like that. he swims pretty funny (lol I'd hate to see him with SBD!) he does wear himself out sometimes when he tries to keep up with the other goldfish, but he usually just rests on top of an arch I have in the tank (lazy fish! lol)

as to the diet, I feed them flakes mostly, but always soaked first. I feed them peas once a week and orange slices once a week. no floating poop either.

so apparently my sister was in my room the other day and used my perfume right next to their tank. I figured out it was shortly before I did the water change, but I did another 10-20% water change when I found this out this morning.

my thought are maybe it's effecting him a lot more because he wears himself out so much and it isn't bothering the little one because she's healthy? kind of what your suggestion was, but a different cause. sound probable?

he is still not wanting to swim on his own, just pushing his fins a bit when he wants to change direction. he doens't seem to want to give up on life though, so I'm hoping he'll pull through.

any suggestion on how to encourage him to get better if he is just worn out or is being effected by the tiny mist of perfume? I'm kind of snowed in so either it will have to wait a day or two or or be something I most likely already had and didn't think of.

thanks so much for all the help already. suggestions still appreciated.

oh, and no, the little on isn't picking on the big on, she is just swimming along with him.

so I am happy to report with another 10-20% water change he's now swimming around happily. with the smaller Ryukin.

their names are Johnny and Jeannie. Johnny's the calico and Jeannie is mostly white with a bit or red. thought I'd take a quick pic and put it up to show you all he's thankful for your help and is feeling much better now.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6753/togetherki0.jpg

Answer 1

Kylie! You're one of our best, so I know you have checked everything and if you're asking for help, you really are stumped! I can't even begin to have the time right now to give a decent, well-informed answer, but I am going to do a lot of research and see what I can find out, if anything, so check back. Not just for my answer, but for anyone else as well who may be taking time to do research.

EDIT: oh, how long have you had your snail? What do you mean by "flipping his fins?" Like he's trying to stay upright, like they're just moving really fast, like stress? I know you say it's not SBD, but I'm just trying to get an idea of how his fins are flipping.

EDIT 2: This deformed fin; it sounds like the dorsal fin? Maybe it just exhausts him trying to swim extra hard to make up for not being able to navigate properly with it and maybe it's just weakened him? Which could make him susceptible to something. Even though you can't see an external disease, there could be something internal brought on by a weakened state. He still sounds really healthy though... I'm still thinkin' and lookin'!

EDIT 3: I'm still researching. I'm also going to post a question on Kokos. I will write back again when I hear from them. I can't help but think that maybe he's just exhausted from having to work so hard to swim and working that hard may have worn him out to a point and weakening him to where an infection might be setting in... since the little one is somewhat new, maybe the little one was carrying something that wasn't bad enough to affect a healthy fish, but may be affecting the poor fishy who feels like he's running a marathon every day...

Answer 2

Surprised to see you ASKING a question - I usually see you in the answers!

My first guess is that it ate something that's giving him/her "gas" -and it would also explain the floating. If the recent feces are floating, or you can see air bubbles within, this would be your diagnosis. What do you usually feed? Flakes & pellets? Have you changed their food lately? Try some fresh foods (peas, squash, shrimp).

ADDITION: I'm assuming that you use a filter in their tank - you could try adjusting the flow so it isn't as strong (temporarily anyway - yes I know how dirty they are, need good filtration, etc.), moving the filter so it creates the least turbulence, or going with just an undergravel (if your tank uses both). Fancies aren't the best of swimmers, and with the deformed fin (nice pic BTW - I love calicos) he may be getting worn out. If you cut back on the current, at least you'll be giving him a rest whether this is the cause of the problem. If the cause was the perfume, I'd continue to do water changes 20% or so maybe twice a day (if you're snowed in, it will help fill the time and make up for cutting back on the filtration). I'd still try giving some fresh food - if the problem is recent any air in the intestines may not have made it's presence known yet, and you'll add some variety to both their diets.

Good luck with this. I'll check back later.

Answer 3

too much ammonia in the tank?

My fish were just sick a few weeks back. I found a food for them that contained medication. They perked up fast.

How long has it been since you added fresh water to the tank.

Maybe do a 20 percent water change. Usually they hang out at the top when oxygen is lacking....

sorry,that's all I can think of.

Water temp?

Answer 4

constipated or maybe internal pararsites? any idea what his poop looks like? sometimes it is from grains in fishfood even. grains aren't really a part of a goldfishes natural diet. if you stick to veggies and frozen foods for a while (daphnea works great to clear em out) it might help.

internal parasites can cause buoyancy problems. if the poop is white and stringy its a good sign of internal parasites.

the other one isnt bothering the big one is he? goldfish have a bad a habit of picking on sick ones. this will just lead to more stress on a stressed out fish.

Answer 5

Hmm, well I hope its just constipation. It could be something internal. You've only had him for a month and a half so something could just be starting to show. I quarentine for 2 months, fish who die of seemingly nothing are perfectly acceptable sudden deaths within that period. Its not uncommon. I don't treat them like healthy members of the fish herd until that 2 months is over.

Answer 6

I easily have had goldfish in the previous and thats precisely what occurred one fish replaced into ill and the different attacked if ill fish are kept to lengthy in a tank with healthful fish that fish will finally end up getting ill to .....wish this permits

Answer 7

I wouldn't rule out a swim bladder infection..

but It may be a simple case of the fish swallowing air when it eats.
Feed them sinking pellets, frozen & live foods, and veggies.

wait for it to poop out the air.