looking for someone who supports bush?

Question

who also knows about 911. (just glance through & know what it's about.. then post)
http://public.fotki.com/honorablepassion/911
http://killtown.911review.org/lonegunmen.html
http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml
i'm really just interested in understanding politics - i'm a very optimistic - and majorly pacifist, researcher. - had a couple similiar questions, just think that the number of answers will tell me somethin valuable

'k.. you guys fascinate me - and i'd really LOVE to have the same views of bush.. EXPLAIN why to me - please? the life is cheerful link doesn't seem to (though i'm rather cheerful reguardless)
both guys seem to advocate pagan/witchcraft
(though dont label 'wicca' which i find shows they aren't total idiots)
masons? affiliations?
i'm thinking of 'v for vendetta' - the antichrist seemed to be the good guy getting rid of the 'corrupt' leadership. i'm thinking that we're being led in steps - and Lieberman will be just as bad, but in different ways.

and orion... goto a hacker convention and about everyone knows what's up.. it's not about the truth on 911.. but about the bigger picture, and if there's possibly something i dont see. there are alot of 'olhp' kids at cons, which is interesting.

'amused. honestly.. i dont think anyone with a logical mind could deny it all, one or two things maybe. so with your 'experience' with 911... did you watch the plane hit the pentagon? i had the priviledge of talking to a jimmy lee who did - seemed to talk a bit about 'rockabilly', which when i searched.. pulled up 3 dead jimmy lees (also seems to have a dia place mentioned..defense intelligence agency?). quite curious how you guys structure things - like who actually pays to write junk/erase junk on yahoo? masonic structure.. oes.. templar..?? it simply astounds me that you have so many on.

*the pentagon card isn't a plot card - it's a group/place.. and one that's very productive. the card itself looks like it doesn't make sense. (other than 911)

Answer 1

Yo. I think I'd qualify though I'm not a huge fan of Bush. Voted for him twice though.

I'm also quite knowledgeable about 9/11 having had a lot of personal involvement one way or another.

From your links, I'm guessing you're a 'Truther' who believes the conspiracy nonsense. More than happy to talk with you about it, though we're on very opposite sides of this issue.

I'm a firefighter, EMT, a High School teacher, an engineer, and a US Army Reservist. I teach self-defense, and consider myself a realist.

Orion

EDIT: More than happy to continue our discussion in e-mail, if you prefer - probably a better forum.

Looked at your Fotki link more closely - the cards aren't that prophetic. The Pentagon has been pictured as being attacked (that image looks like a nuke going off in the center, not an aircraft collision) countless times - it's the symbol of American military might and an obvious target. The WTC had been attacked before and there were a lot of articles, et. al. about how the attack might have worked.

LooseChange has been debunked almost as many times as the "Faked Moon Landing" people. So, I wouldn't be using that as a source... Again, people have been talking about planes hitting buildings since back before a B25 flew into the Empire State Building on July 28, 1945.

As you point out, many of the cards you post are Nixon/Watergate cards. Every government has scandals of some sort - Clinton set a record, just as Regan did before him. Hardly prophetic or even indicative of some grand overarching conspiracy.

The Population Reduction card pretty clearly does NOT show the WTC under attack - It shows two much smaller buildings in the foreground, undamaged (probably the 4th tallest shown). The WTC towered over every other building in NYC. Further, the image shown implies a biological or chemical attack, not a kinetic attack. As to the Demon Face, people have been seeing faces in odd places (e.g. Mars) for as long as we've been people. Human beings are hard-wired to turn anything that appears even remotely facial into a face. As they point out in the Snopes article you linked to.

The image shown on the card, again, is not a demon face, but a skull - a death symbol, relating to the title of the card and one frequently used for chemical and biological (or even radiological) agent contaminated areas. And the Illuminati? Um...Sure. Didn't Dan Brown already do that story line?

The Killtown link also is no big deal. LOTS of theories about flying planes into big buildings prior to 9/11. You'll recall the nutjob who flew a Cessna into the White House on...9/11/1994. It's not a great leap in logic to say "Hey! How about if we tried a BIGGER plane?" Especially for creative writers looking for a way to write a dramatic story.

I loved the Coincidence or Conspiracy link - I'm still giggling over that one. Were there some grand conspiracy, WHY would they hide clever little clues in the 20 dollar bill??? Are we in the real world or in a 1970s Batman episode with The Riddler? Real people planning to do bad things do not leave hidden little clues. They hide everything as much as possible. It's a survival trait.

On to the other topics...Yes, I'm a pagan. No, I don't particularly advocate Paganism - Everyone needs to find their own path. Judging from your links and topics in your pages, you seem to have some connection to Satanism, I should give you a head's up that I do *NOT* like those folks at all. I won't draw any conclusions as to your involvement or lack thereof, but I just wanted to give you that heads up.

In 'V' for Vendetta, the protagonist is an ANARCHIST, not the ANTI-CHRIST. :-)

Satanist Script-Kiddies at hacker conventions don't really impress me as to having an inside track as to what's going on. Most of the ones I've met (I was hacking a loooong time ago - before folks had 'hacker conventions' - LOL! What a concept!) have a very distorted view of themselves, their 'inside knowledge' and usually their skills. They tend to see conspiracies everywhere. When you do that, it's hard NOT to find 'evidence'. I've even had folks tell me "Why, the very LACK of evidence is what makes it so OBVIOUS that there's a conspiracy!" Oh my.

As for being led in steps? Nah. There's a fairly predictable path for most any government with ups and downs, more liberties and less that has occurred throughout history. We're on the same path and the same sorts of things will likely happen. We still have the best country in history, with the most freedoms, the most wealth, the most religious freedom, and the greatest strength, as well as the greatest inclination to use our power for good. More so than any other nation in the history of the planet. If you focus all your energies on looking for evil, you're going to find a lot of it. And in the process, miss the much greater amounts of good. THAT is what you are missing, my friend. Not some hidden Illuminati conspiracy, not secretive cabals of Satanists bringing about terror. Simply men doing what men do. Some of it evil, most of it neutral, some of it very, very good.

As to why I semi-support Bush? Because he was the only person who would prosecute the Long War. I'm not thrilled with HOW he's prosecuted it, but he's fighting at least. As Lincoln said about Grant, "I cannot spare this man. He fights." I don't like most of Bush's domestic policies, I disagree with great numbers of his foreign policies and I loathe a lot of his choices for advisers. None of that mattered compared to the Long War.

Gore would have surrendered and doomed the world, as would Kerry. Our next President will face the same choice. Hopefully, whoever it is, will make the right one. I have faith that they will.

Hopefully this helps elaborate on my positions some...As I said, feel free to e-mail if you wish to continue there, or continue updating here.

Orion

Answer 2

I do.