Was South Africa better off under apartheid?

Question

And before anyone responds with the usual 'yes, for 8% of the population', let's look at the facts:
Firstly, apartheid was inexcusable and had to go. It would eventually have disintegrated on its own. This question is about irony.
Under the previous government, South Africa had a working infrastructure, first world amenities and relativey crime free streets.
Since the thugs of the ANC took over, aided by the UN and America sticking their noses into a situation where they had nothing to lose, the country has followed the road to ruin of every single African country. Without exception.
Rape, murder and robbery are the order of the day, as well as theft of land, which will eventually lead to the starvation of the country.
The EXACT SAME racial classifications have been put back in place, this time benefiting blacks, leaving out all other minorities - Coloured, Indian - just as they were left out under apartheid.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Superstar - wie is u, suster? Dis baie mooi geskryf. Ek stem heeltemal saam met u.

Unreal Hero - once again, a brilliant, objective answer that sticks to facts.

Answer 1

Let's look at the new South Africa:
There are 15000 murders a year.
The violent crime rate is a massive 8 times higher than the world average.
Rapes are the norm and have only a 5% conviction rate.
The Safety and Security minister's "solution" to crime is to tell people to get out the country.
The AIDS epidemic is ravaging the country, 12.5% of all South Africans have the virus.
The ex vice-president believes that a shower could prevent the risk of contracting AIDS.
Millions of tax-payers money is blown on bullshit.
The country is held to ransom by Cosatu whenever they feel like it (watch out for this during the 2010 WC)
Public Transport is falling apart.
A favourite past-time of some groups of people is to burn trains, or even more fun, to throw people off them.
The President seems oblivious to all the problems.
Children are raped since it "cures AIDS"
BEE has resulted in people not yet capable of doing the job being forced into a position thus resulting in a set-back to the economy.
Morals towards other people and animals seem to be non-existant in large sectors of the population - The recent case of a policeman killing a goat in front of a police station with a blunt butter knife serves to illustrate here.
A walk through most city centres or areas which were previously a hub of entertainment places will reveal a disgusting situation where crime is rampant, with filth and litter everywhere. Hillbrow, Sunnyside and Church Square are classic examples.
Many children do not have schools.
The rate of poverty affecting children is sitting at 50%. That means that half of the "future of South Africa" are starving to death.
The white population of SA is being eradicated through murder and the goverment feels it necessary to take the means away for whites to defend themselves.

The list goes on and on. So is South Africa better now than 20 years ago? No.

Answer 2

I'm a white South African and an Afrikaner on top of that, who immigrated to the States 5 years ago.. I'm 26 and grew up in apartheid. We all know that the country needed to make a change... that's a fact, but your point about the UN and USA sticking their noses in where it wasn't wanted it well stated! And just like p***s'y they run away to proclaim their good work.. never looking back to take a glimps of their "handy work"..

America went throught the same change not even 50 years ago.. in comparison that is a short span for a country to be pointing a finger... (I have just resently decided not to discuss this topic with anyone, because people's ignorance angers and frustrates me so much!)
SA is becoming a fascist sociaty.. I still have family and friends there and even after having left I still hear about the horror stories on a daily basis! I guess to answer your question, I think SA was better.. concidering the bigger picture.. I also believe that the change would have been more constructive if it had happened on it's own time.. just like America's and Germany's changes happened on it's own time...
My country is screwed, not just for indians and cape coloured's, but mostly for my people, because my ancestors were the ones who created this situation.. for whatever reason and I need to pay the price.. me and my people.. and the worst part is that the ignorant ones have no sympathy or empathy, because my people were the "cause"! So we're getting what we deserve, right?

The Black people were not allowed on our busses or to eat in our restaurants or to use the same toilets as we did, or even allowed in our shopping centers.. they didn't get the best education and couldn't get much better work than cleaning houses or labour work... but they didn't get killed aimlessly every day either!

The sad thing is that whites are also in minotity, thus, even if we all stand together and decide to fight this.. it'll be like the f***ing Alamo... we'll be wiped out in two day's... but if the Afrikaners ever decide to do it... they'll do it with their heads held high! And I'll be there in the front lines if they'll have me!

So I guess you're right... the more things change, the more they stay the same. What a world huh?

Answer 3

I'm not South African. I'm Egyptian. Yes, South Africa was better off under apartheid. It was better off in terms of health, public safety and the overall human development index. Even food security was better. Poverty and unemployment were less of a problem. Statistics don't lie. Finally, it was a little less insane.

Answer 4

Allow me to stray a little from the question and then get back to it.

What I am about to say will shock most.
I think that the previous generation of South Africans were too democratic and too greedy.
Now before you all have a heart attack, read on!

If you consider that the native Indian population in the states was somewhere around 20 million inhabitants at the time the first Europeans arrived, how many are there now?
Do I agree with that sort of genocide - No.
Did the Australians or New Zealanders find uninhabited islands?
No.

Do I agree with colonisation? No
But I find myself having to continually defend my country and past to foreigners who can´t find Iraq on a map, or who think South Africa is the bottom half of Africa and don´t know it´s a country.
So I will give you my opinion on where we went wrong.

We should have established our borders very early on in our History, about 150 years ago. This would have included about 50 - 60% of present day South Africa of which only a very small percentage of Africans occupied. Is this so bad if we consider the colonisation of USA, Oz or NZ?
Again, do I agree with Colonization, NO, but these are my thoughts.
This would have left most of the Africans to proceed with their existing lifestyle and culture of many centuries with minimal impact.
So no forced removals from land and no greedy dependence on African labour.
Anybody wishing to work within the countries borders would require a permit.
South Africa could have developed at it´s own pace similar to that of Australia without an over reliance on African labour and the Africans could have proceeded at their own pace.
There would have been no reason for Apartheid (why did we give it a name, the worst decision ever) or for all the other discriminatory laws as we would have been a majority of Europeans like in USA, Oz,NZ etc.
We could have protected or borders vehemently and reserved permission for work and residence permits - have you tried to get a permit for the aforementioned countries?!
Our children would have been able to grow up securely in a healthy relatively crime free environment.

Now, if you had to make the assumption from this answer that I am racist you would be very very wrong.
What I am asking is, is it wrong to have wanted in South Africa only the same, however with less genocide and slavery, that has happened in other ex-colonies?

We were two different cultures the Europeans and the Africans, should they not have developed at their own respective rates?
Would the "smaller" South Africa have not been a greater contributor to stability, health and safety on the African continent, an experienced go-between?

The South Africans are the friendliest, open, warm, caring, hospitable people in the world and don´t deserve to be in the position they are now because of some seriously bad political decisions.

Was S.A better under Apartheid?
Apartheid should never have happened and maybe I would still be walking up my beloved Lions Head every Sunday morning along with my Staffie by my side instead of 11 000kms in a foreign country adapting to a new culture.

Is there life after South Africa? Yes
Just very different, we will never have what we once had but life sure is sweet not worrying about whether our house will get broken into, or if my wife is safe walking to the post box etc. etc.

I love South Africa and ALL South Africans,
a very big part of my heart is missing and is probably with my friends and family who I left behind, but this guilt-free, safe, healthy, politically uncomplicated life style that I lead now is too good to leave and return to S.A.

cheers for now

Answer 5

The word Crimes Stats was allmost unheard of previously...and if there was a Rape or a Murder or other Fraud...It use to shock the country to the bone...and it was the talking point for weeks on end..
Now that we live with it every day.....its become just an incident and forgotten by the end of the day...

Presently the outlook is as such and this is how we feel.....

The 18 528 murders, 54 926 rapes and the 119 726 instances of violent crime during 2006 are unacceptable to me and to millions of other South Africans. Crime is doing tremendous damage to our country. It erodes business confidence and destroys any hopes of tackling the many other problems, like poverty and unemployment, that face our country. The main effect is that it makes negative, pessimistic and unpatriotic citizens out of South Africans. One can hardly expect a country populated by scared and angry people to be successful.

Answer 6

I have never been there, but I've read enough history to believe that things will get better. Events happened very quickly in South Africa, and very recently, and it was not without reason that the Lord made the Israelites wander in the desert for 40 years: the generation which makes the revolution is seldom equipped to run the new nation, and there must be time for the old to die off.

The people I've corresponded with in that South Africa are uniformly pessimistic, but they maintain the basic competence and toughness that enabled them to settle the place to begin with. That's why I think you'll do okay in a few years.

The situation in the US is perhaps a bit farther along, and we have discovered that our blacks, at least, are very anxious to be in the middle class, and have a very strong sense of conservatism once they've accumulated enough to conserve. South Africa has one problem that we do not, and that's the problem of tribes and the old native castes. But I believe that you'll find your way through. The nation retains its natural resources and climate. Good luck, and please work hard. I hope to visit one day.

Answer 7

Over the whole history of apartheid - no but in the last 5 or so years of it's existence things changed rapidly and I remain of the opinion that left to South Africans and the natural eradication of that Policy SA would be in a much better position today than it currently is. The abrupt takeover by the ANC with their racist Policies has seen not only the flight of expertise in the form of Human Capital but left other minority Groups in no mans land. There are so many things out of control that it is difficult to restrain oneself to any particular issue.The ANC along with their cronies have merely looted the Country whislt overseeing the genocide of millions. The man of "perceptions" Mbeki is either in an alcoholic stupor or a moronic cretin of the highest order. South Africa had an opportunity to become a mini US economically but it is never going to happen and all the denialists are not learning from history on the African continent. China is in the process of recolonising Africa and unless the West steps in then SA is gone. The US and the UK let South Africa down big time by allowing a Communist takeover and then abandoning the Country. The peoples of SA are not a united force through the deliberate Policy of the ANC of Divide and Rule so it is hard to see an uprising.I guess the flight of people will continue until SA becomes totally ruined and begs the West to help or the Chinese become the de facto Rulers and the suppression of people and human rights abuses begin. Whatever, I can see only disaster for South Africa over the next 15-20 years.

Turniton 5 - What you are saying is in many respects the views of a lot of White South Africans. Had the colonists acted the same as they did in Australia/New Zealand then SA would have been a different place today. The one thing you did not mention is that under White colonials the Afican population flourished and grew in numbers whereas in Aus/NZ the Aborigine numbers etc. declined. Your personal position reflects the sad position that many South Africans find themselves in and the very skills SA needs have been driven out of the Country by the ANC.

Answer 8

It depends how one looks at it.
e.g. public schools, hospitals and safety were better under apartheid. It's nice that one can have a whole variety of friends without being scared what would happen...

Did you know that the "black and white" separate toilets law has not been changed yet?

Answer 9

I can't help agreeing with unreal hero on most of what he said.
I am Indian so was and still am part of the minority.
There should be equal opportunity for people of all colours!
The solution might have been to allow the white man and black man to share presidency - 2 presidents? Or perhaps have a black president and a white deputy president?
The crime rate in this country is the worst proof of the "failure" of this government. And don't forget, that except for the "fat cats" most of the blacks are still living in poverty and waiting for fulfillment of the "promises" of a black government.

Answer 10

I often end up writing the same thing on other sites