Who knows about Irish and Italian gangs?

Question

I want NON BIASED answers only please. Do you think that if the Irish were more organized that they would have been more powerful than the mafia? The Irish side of my family says yes and the Italian side says no way. I want someone who is well versed and can answer without simply choosing sides for no reason or without being able to back up their information. From what I have read the Irish gangs were way "tougher" than the Italian ones but the Italians were just smart enough to make things more organized. (I'm talking about the gangs in the early 20th century America) Please discuss

Answer 1

The Irish were considerd to be more violent..and more feared at one point..but the Italians had a more set structure and rules.

Both did the same kinds of thing..extortion..book making etc...some say the fact that the Italains only got itnto the drug game later allowed them to grow unchecked.

Yes i think the Irish mob could have surpassed the Italian mob if they had been more organized..The Italians back then were still immigrants and seen as "outsiders"..well after the Irish were accepted.

In addittion, especially around boston, but really everywhere, most Irish had someone in the extended family who was on the police force and that "in" could have been used very effectively.
If Infighting in the Irish mob did not take place, if they had the same organization And could make use of thier police connections effectivley,,yes they could have surpassed the Italians..The time they spebnt trying to wrassle power from each other could have been used to expand.

Answer 2

The Irish gangs were tough, but toughness does not always mean more violent. They also lacked the funds and organization of the Italian and Sicilian gangs. You also have to look at the motivations behind those gangs. The Irish gangs were mostly formed as a means of protection, there was safety in numbers, but the Itallian gangs were looking at much more (there's that organization again) than just safety. They were entrepreneurs in that sense. This allowed them to set up the system they had. The Irish gangs did have some success in criminal activities but nowhere near as much as the Italians did. Some of this is due to where they came from culturally and historically. The Irish historically were secluded from the rest of the world, and their only real contacts were with western Europe (England, Scotland, and France to be more specific), whereas Italy was a hot spot for thousands of years, dealing with both western and eastern Europe as well as the Middle Eastern nations. Thus the Italians were more "worldly" in the sense of business, and other areas. This benefited them when it came to underworld activities. The Irish however had much more success when it came to law enforcement, as many joined the police forces instead of gangs. You can come to your own sociological and psychological conclusions concerning that.

I am of Scottish and Irish ancestry. On my fathers side, my grandfather was a Scot who immigrated to the United States in 1912 and became a legal US citizen. My mothers grandfather was an Irish man who came to the US in the 1800's lived in the North East for some time before moving to Oklahoma and marrying a Cherokee. So I guess maybe I am a little biased when it comes to the question, but I've tried not to be. Hope this helps

Answer 3

What a question. I mean, really, who knows. Can it really be proven the Italian mafia is stronger than the total Irish presence in American society?

The Irish enetered politics and went mainstream. Look at the Kennedys. Look at Tip O'Neill -- maybe the greatest Speaker of the House in the history of the USA.

The Irish took to politics very well and very quickly, and they continue to thrive, even though only one Catholic made the Oval Office. Clinton is an Irish-American.

I think you might have an apples to oranges deal going there. If you limit the discussion just to organized crime in NYC, I don't know enough to answer.

I do know that the mafia all over the world comes to NYC for training. The Italian mafia in the NYC area is like the Harvard University of mafia studies.

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Hey, Charles, just like with most Americans, there is a difference between being culturally Christian, and being a disciple of Christ.

Bush 43 is a great example. Here's a guy who has never seen a war he doesn't like, and loves to execute criminals and retarded women in the gas chambers of Texas. So, if he's a Christian, then Michael Jackson is the new ultimate fighting champion.

Ditto for most politicians. They are culturally Christian, but their thoughts and deeds cannot possibly be reconciled with the Gospel.

So, though you are right about including Catholics in this, let's not kid ourselves and think this phenomenon is limited to Catholics.

Answer 4

Airborne and Judy G had really good answers. Judy G said a lot of things that I agree with. I do believe that the Irish would have surpassed the Italians if they would have been more organized.

Answer 5

Both the gangs are Roman Catholics or its offshoots. Even murder is tolerated, as they think a sinful priest can forgive their sins. Infant baptized Christians believe that they will eventually go to heaven no matter how sinful they are (Satanic influences).

Answer 6

No...only that my man is...Italian Italian.

Answer 7

my granddad is in the mafia.........i hate him........but its cool... x.x