Does anyone besides me wonder how big SPACE is? I am not talking about the universe...I mean SPACE!?

Question

"Space" is where everything occurs, but so is the universe. The difference between space and the universe is this: the universe consists of all matter. Space consists of...space. The thing is, once you get to the edge of the universe, space just keeps on going...and going...and going, ad infinitum. Try and get your head around what that really means. It means that nothing is of any true size; if it weren't for stuff with which to compare other stuff, there would be no way to measure. No measure ment is absolute; every measurement and every dimension depends on other measurements and dimensions. Space has no dimensions; there is no place where you can go and say, "Over there is where space begins." Nothing contains the entirety of space. Space is infinite in every direction. The universe is flat, they say, but space is not constrained by any concept of geometry...or distance. My mind boggles when I try to conceive the inconceivableness of SPACE.

Any thoughts on this?

I want to thank everyone who attempted a reasonable answer to my question. The prize for best attempt goes to crabby_blindguy; however, I can't accept the premise that space only exists to accommodate matter. That's like saying theres's only a road if a car is driving on it.

Clarification: How can there be a edge or a boundary or a perimeter or any kind of limitation on space? That would imply SOMETHING ELSE containing space! Somehow, the concept of NON-space or ANTI-space is even more inconceivable than the concept of space itself.

To Twizard113. Yes, I share those thoughts with you. That reminds me of something Frank Zappa said about all matter consisting of vibrations (I'm not sure if those were his original ideas). Perfectly plausible description.

Sorry...I meant I shared the thoughts of Dr Dave P, not Twizzel.....

San's reply seems to be the most erudite, yet.

I may have misdefined "universe". By that term, I meant all matter. I guess I should have cut to the chase in my original expository Query. The whole point of my entry, and what still perplexes me is how there can be a point beyond which space does not exist. If I understand correctly, you are saying that space and the universe behave in tandem, space expanding concurrently with the Great Inflation--in fact, that they can be considered one and the same. A lot of your answer is beyond the scope of my reading. However, I must declare now that regardless of who determines whether space (space/universe) is finite of infinite, I await and answer to this question: if space is finite, then what the heck starts where space ends? (And I don't give any credence at all to any theory of space's bending and that somehow explaining away the question. That would just make space a bubble...and even bubbles have to be somewhere.)

Billy_Butthead has the most lucid answer yet.

I never considered that space simply never existed (although now that I think about it, one or two other responders may have said the same thing in more erudite but less lucid terms), that there was truly nothing before the universe made its way into the nothing. Somehow I find that much easier to fathom than an endless limitless void.

Kudos

Answer 1

I wonder about it all the time.
We can only theorize about this but it does yield to logic,to a certain extent.
Space is a finite entity that permeates and supports every thing that we experience.
Nothing exists beyond space.
I know it is difficult to imagine but we are faced with the fact that before the universe existed there was nothing
When it came into existence it expanded into nothing.
You can"t go beyond that interface because there is nowhere to go.

Answer 2

I get your point--but the answer is a null. The reason is that the totality of "space" extends as far as the universe (meaning the universe as you'e defined it) but no further. There is no "space" the way you're thinking of it beyond the limits of the universe.

This does not make sense when I (or anyone else) tries to put into English--the only language that can accurately handle the concepts is mathematics.

There are (hypothetical) "extra-universe" factors--generally these go under the label "hyperspace" or "multiple dimensions." But, first, we don't knw if many of these factors are physically real--or just a convenient way of grappling with certain phenomenae. Even so, mathematically, you can't assume "hyperspace" is "outside "space--you can describe models in which hyperspace and space are 1-to-1 mappings (english aproximation is, that they overlap perfectly).

But, jsut to confuse you further if you aren't already convinced I've forgotten how to speak English!--that's the best model we'e got of "reality"--right now. At the rate our understanding ofphysics is growing, that can (and some of it probably will) change in the coming years.

Answer 3

Just to be clear, the galaxies are not expanding into space, and space has not outrun the galaxies in any sense. There is no "edge" of the universe, beyond which there is only empty space. The universe is considered to be all of the space-time manifold, and when its expansion went into hyper-drive during the early inflationary period, the energy content went right along with it. All of space is considered to be uniform in its distribution of mass/energy.

Whether it is finite or infinite is not yet decided, but current estimates of the mass-energy density appears to indicate a flat or open cosmological topography, corresponding to an infinite scale with no eventual big crunch.

Answer 4

Sure, I think everyone at some point ponders this question, and then comes to the realization that it can't be answered. Our mind tend to drift on to more managable things that we can deal with and solve in our daily lives and this question - sort of fades away.

What really fascinates me, even to this day, is the fact that - you are speakinging of ENDLESS space - beyond the edges the universe (matter). What about all the space that is present WITHIN matter. Most of matter IS space, and the matter is in constant motion.

What you think and pick up as a solid rock is a complex soup of protons, neutron, and electrons in constant motion, yet it feels SOLID to us - no space. We are so limited in our perception of our view of matter itself, how could we possible even understand something as complex and infinite space.

Answer 5

Just to elaborate on what crabby_bl... said, space itself is always moving outwards allowing things like galaxies to expand into it. Just after the Big Bang, there was a sudden inflation of space exploding faster than the speed of light. The galaxies are still trying to catch up to it but can't since they can't move faster than the speed of light.

Billions of years ago, there was less "space" in the universe but it continues to expand. Scientist believe there is not enough matter in the universe to stop this expansion of space and the expansion into space of the objects in it will go on indefinitely. Good question!

Answer 6

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Answer 7

welcome to the paradox of the human brain, our bite sized brains cant begin to wrap itself around infintie so dont try youll go crazy. its one of those things that in knowing how miniscule, infintesamaly small we our, on the cusp of insignifiacance. but at the same time the earth and its inhabitant, all the life forms, are unique. so take pleasure in all that. we are a crain of dust floating in the cosmos

Answer 8

uh...i tried reading your paragraph but i kinda got bored sorry! but yea space is HUGE!