What if America had lost the war of independance?

Question

What do you think the situation would be in the states if it were still a colony. Bear in mind that Australia is a british colony, and the world does not look upon them with such contempt.
When i travelled the states people said that they'd won their freedom. But with some of the mentallity you see in the USA, is there such a thing as too much freedom?

Doug: "Nothing wrong with a country protecting its interests. Even if it takes a war to do so"
A bit of a sweeping statement, an excuse for a multitude of sins. How far can you take the word 'interests'?

Granted. You did give us a hand back in the early 40's. But i wonder what sort of Military power the British Colony of America would of had. Probably lots of 'chaps' sitting around drinking tea and playing cricket.

Murphy: Cool answer. Maybe the british empire was even worse. The difference is you didn't have the same kind of media where everyone could hear about something 5 seconds after it happened.

The USA does have its strengths over Australia, Intelligence seem to be the first. Yea the USA arn't the most loved folk in the world but at least they talk about more than surfing and sport. Lets face it Australia was exactly breed from the sharpest tools in the shed. What america has is diveristy throughout the countries, i mean in a cultural sense. Each city has such a different identity and this due to the epic geography. In england, one town pretty much the same as the next, and in australia its one surf resort after another.

Answer 1

A really complex question. Given the amount of time that's passed and the impact North America has had on the world since 1776 there's really no way to tell. But just for fun...

The 13 colonies retract their claims of independence and dissolve their Articles of Confederation (disbanding the USA). In return the UK recognises that the British people of North America are entitled to the same rights they enjoyed before settling the continent for Britain, and so each of the 14 colonies (13 that became USA, + Canada) is invited to sign the United Kingdom's second Act of Union, and is given equal status to England and Scotland within the new 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and America'. With each colony running it's own domestic affairs, but now sending MPs and Lords to Westminster, the issue of taxation without representation is resolved.

Without an expansionist USA proclaiming its manifest destiny to exist from sea to sea, the political and ethnic make up of North America is radically different. The Louisiana purchase never happens as the French would not willingly hand over their North American possessions to the British, and while some territory may have changed hands through conflict, to this day central North America speaks French. Much of what would become south-western USA remains part of Mexico, including Texas and California.

With an increased French presence in North America and the fact that the UK itself includes territory there, North America is much more directly involved in 19th century European affairs than it was in reality. With emigration from Europe to the Eastern seaboard raising the population of that part of the UK in North America, the UKofGB&A dominates the Atlantic and feels increasingly secure, becoming less concerned about a major power dominating the European continent. For that reason the approach of the UKofGB&A to the rise of the German Empire is more similar to that of real-life USA than real-life UK, and so World War One happens without much British involvement, although France and Germany do fight the war it is obvious from the start neither can obliterate the other and they come to a negotiated peace much earlier.

Germany is never subjected to the painful terms of surrender and the Kaiser never abdicates, meaning the Nazi party never gets started and world war 2 never happens. The German Empire gradually becomes a constitutional monarchy and by the mid 20th century is increasingly democratic. The Russian revolution doesn't get off the ground as the major powers are not so weakened by war as in our reality, and with western aid the Czar manages to stop communism taking root and the Soviet Union is never formed. A war with japan, similar to the Pacific theatre of real life World War 2 is possible, and the UKofGB&A may still run the Manhaten project and develop a nuclear bomb.

As in reality the British and French Empires gradually become associations of nations, and India becomes independent around 1950. Australia and New Zealand may petition for outright independence from the UKofGB&A or may seek to join it as the former American colonies did.

Of course all of that is almost certainly a lot of rubbish and there are holes in the scenario you could drive a 747 through.

Answer 2

Man, this is a deep question. Not sure how much damage I can do.

The U.S. and Australia are large complex nations. English roots and language are something they have only vaguely in common.

America was settled by a motley assortment of adventurers and cast-offs. Religious asylum seekers. Fortune seekers. Came the Spaniards, the French, the English. All were duking it out with a strong native population descended from East Asians.

Australia was a penal colony, largely for the pugnacious Irish (right?), that landed amidst a native Polynesian tribal people.

They are not really that similar. Not from the start.

I'm not sure, then, you can raise the question of contempt and tie it to English roots. In the case of America, maybe you can. I'm sure the British Empire, at its peak, made its share of enemies. Some of the methods employed to fatten up Brittania did not play so well.

So, perhaps the U.S. today is more similar to jolly Old England than you would be comfortable to acknowledge. I mean, a lot of these imperial tactics and attitudes were learned from the British Aristocracy from whence we came.

Viewed through this lens, the American Revolution was about economics and not ideology. It was about keeping a fair share of the pie, and about exploiting the weakness that came with the vast span of the Atlantic.

Similarly, then, Australia might be prone to the same tendency if it were in better position to do so. But, is there a more isolated nation on Earth than Australia? Australia does not really have the opportunity to cause trouble like the U.S. enjoys. Australia is alone in the Pacific, except for a bunch of pineapple people and the New Zealanders that always beat them at cricket.

Then, in comes the question of the interplay between climate and the national character. Australia is a temperate nation, with lots of good land on the coast, and lots of bad land in the interior. So, it has developed a more laid back culture I think, in part, due to its geography. Look at Southern California and Florida in the U.S. Same sort of thing.

I mean, this is really a complex subject. I could go on all day. We also have a lot of Germanic influence here. And, nobody loves war and dominance quite like the Germans.

Anyway, write me if you want to hear more of my thought on this subject. Cheers.

Answer 3

The World could possibly be a lot better off. The American government through the last half century has overtly and covertly been dipping there fingers into a lot of countries political situations whether it was asked for or not. In nearly all cases it has caused major disruptions, instability and loss of life.
They do this to ensure that they maintain themselves as the number one power. Although the British Government has been involved in conflicts and are involved in ongoing situations, this is only due to the fact that our government has to do America's bidding due to economic factors. If America was under British jurisdiction, although they would, like the Australians and the Indians until the 60's be given autonomy over the running of their country, the British Government has got a less Gun Ho! attitude towards becoming involved in other countries affairs.
Of course there is no way of knowing. As the saying goes, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Answer 4

I wonder what mentallity you're refering to. If we were still a colony of Britain we would be looking after British interests in the world now instead of American ones. There is nothing wrong with a country protecting its own interests even if it takes a war to do so.

Answer 5

Then it would have been known as "the Civil War in the Colonies."
It means you have to be careful when labelling a situation that's still in progress....you have to finish it and have an OUTCOME first before it can be called either a "Revolution" or a "Civil War".

If the south won war between the states, it would have been labeled as "the Confederate Revolution".

Answer 6

they honestly believe they have freedom.
u try telling them what they have is far from freedom.
with GW calling the shots,
life's going 2 become a tad uncomfortable 4 the average yank 4 the last part of his term in office.
he has at last signed up 2 curbing CO emissions, wanting every american 2 change their reliance on gas ( petrol) .
& it is not what they had ever expected.
they have always maintained that changing their life-styles etc, would b like going backwards & living in caves!
they can afford 2 waste, poison the environment, bully the rest of world, why?
purely & simply bcoz they're american!
as u refer 2 their war of independence.
i have learnt what was meant 2 b a new era, 4 a new country, needing/wanting 2 detach themselves from great britain colonialism & abolish slavery.
which yes they did, but differences of opinion remain over whether or not they successfully ratified the14th amendment.
looking in2 the 14th amendment & the differing opinions.

some people r just MORE free than others!

Answer 7

I would rather be under the rule of British type government than our government. At least their parliament is allowed to question and challenge Blair face-to-face on issues and disagreements.
Here you are thrown out of a meeting or just not allowed in if you do not agree with the Bush regime.

Answer 8

It would still be a British Colony.

Answer 9

I imagine that it would be pretty similar except that Canada would probably be a part of whatever country existed in North America.

Answer 10

Not much. We're still doing Britain's dirty work. Read the book "All the Shah's Men" by Steven Kinzer and you'll see how, starting in the mid 50's, the British began to trick us into following their destructive foreign policy and doing their dirty work for them. It's very disturbing and all of us owe it to our country and our future to know the truth.