What is your take on Tony Blair overuling the Catholic Church on Gay Adoption?

Question

My own feeling is that for once, I wholeheartedly agree with Blair geeting bolshy! Why deny a child a good home just because some choose to believe gay = sinful? If they want to believe it sinful then fine but why should that unpopular, out of tune belief have a direct effect on a childs welfare and future? What's more annoying is that the Catholic Church get paid by Government to provide childcare services so why should they dictate the terms? Especially as they have such a squeaky clean reputation on the child mistreatment issues themselves, (NOT!).
I happen to believe, as I hope many more do, that Homosexuality is not wrong, not a sin and nor does it need to be discriminated agaisnt, it is normal but different, period. Discriminating agaisnt gay people is every bit as wrong as racial discrimination and we need to tolerate not one ounce of it. What is your take people?

I did Grinning Ape but you seem not to want to give it, so if you want to waste your time and pretend your funny, your choice.

Barrie G come on! Saying Homosexuality is wrong for the same reasons as Paedophilia is wrong is ridiculous, the two are NOT comparable issues in any way! It's like saying it is wrong to wash red socks with white sheets for the same reasons as it is wrong to bludgeon someone to death, very old, very stupid and utterly groundless argument and dont be suprised if you get an abuse report.

richiesown, this question is not about anal sex. As far as I am aware sex is not all that being gay involves, your knowledge sounds as if it comes from a personal obsession with the issue to be honest, which is clearly your problem, no one else here raised it.

Martin L and your reasoned argument based in some kind of logid would be...???

ptrlack, maybe you should try answering another similar question again when the drugs have worn off?

It's nice to get a wide over view monty and I don't just want views that agree with mine, I don't agree with you but you put your point across well. The others I signalled were just plain offensive and utterly stupid arguments in my view and I have as much right to say that as they do to spout their peice. If I wanted to stop opposite views would I have asked the question, really? Think about it.

Incidently monty, it is not me adding the thumbs downs to people who are in disagreement with my view, they are growing rapidly too. Now what does that tell you?

Answer 1

Lets see people talk about cathlolic adoption agencies closing down... Good heres a typical one... all read and also look at what else the church is into

'The Magdelen Sisterss' should be in your video shop but the tv drama 'sinners' was more accurate if you can find it.
over 30,000 were involved up till 1996...how old were you at that time?
How many of your friends, you or your sister could have ended up here.

http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/magdalen.html

http://www.netreach.net/~steed/magdalen.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0380703/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/drama/sinners/interviews/annemarie.shtml
Origonal documentry available from

http://cgi.ebay.com/SEX-IN-A-COLD-CLIMATE-DVD-DOCUMENTRY-REG-0_W0QQitemZ6437066430QQcategoryZ617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3180406.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2003/10_october/09/panorama_holy_city.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3147672.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3180174.stm

church support for child rape

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-details/Pope+'led+cover-up+of+child+abuse+by+priests'/article.do

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1020400,00.html

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1020400,00.html

Vatican support for mass murders who like raping women with dogs

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,3809742-103596,00.html

http://www.remember-chile.org.uk/comment/vatican.htm

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40710F6395C0C718CDDAD0894DF484D81&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fP%2fPinochet%2c%20Augusto



Now what have peadophiles ie sexaul bullies of children

have to do with gays.

guys who fancy guys, , often creative and funny

have in common?


Oh and how many husbands go the missus up the shitter or get it in return with a strap on?

Answer 2

I agree with you that homosexuality is not wrong. It is also not a choice, but has been shown to be a natural state for a persons brain to develop when certain conditions are met when in the womb.

Discriminating against someone on the grounds of their sexual orientation is morally bankrupt. It is the same as discriminating against someone because they are from Swindon! Completely stupid and pointless.

However, I don't think you have your starting point the right way around... Tony Blair didn't 'overrule' the catholic church. He simply re-stated the law. The catholic church used it's adoption service (and clearly the children themselves) as a weapon when wanting to discriminate against gay people. They were, in effect, saying if you don't let us continue to discriminate in whatever way we chose against a serious percentage of the population, we will give up our adoption agency, and dump hundreds of children onto the street. How very christian.

So much for living the life of a christ. God of love?? Pull the other one!

But then the history of the catholic church - both ancient and modern - is not exactly in accord with the whole 'God of Love/Sacred Heart' mythology either.

Answer 3

I agree with you and applaud you for your beliefs.

The Catholic Church and any other agency is being paid to render a service. The Church is just another entity that should be required to follow the same regulations as any other entity.

If they don't believe in a cause then they shouldn't adopt it or support it. Whose to say that they won't discriminate against straight Jewish parents because they aren't Catholic? Or against a little person because they are too short.

The Church is too big for it's britches and needs to be taken down a notch. If they want to accept funds for childcare services then they need to abide by the rules governing it. Otherwise they don't have to take the funds.

Blair is correct in making this decision. The Church has always been a huge bully and thinks that it can do what it wants because of who they are. Let's think about this. They did what they wanted with the priests who molest children and where did that get them?

The Church has a long way to go. They are no longer in touch with what their people want or who they are. That's the burden they have to carrry.

Answer 4

I couldn't agree with you more,discrimination of any kind is wrong and people that chose to drone on about religion and sins and other things that have nothing to do with a childs happiness should be ignored. An adopted child needs security,love and two adults that can look after and nurture it. There are so many disfunctional straight couples that have children and mistreat them, so why say a gay couple won't do a good job of it. The church is being selfish and unfair and simply worrying about themselves and their out of date morals and they are not worried about the issue, which is a child being put into a loving and secure family unit.

Answer 5

Wellaner. What are these rights that the government is interfering with?

The right to behave in a discriminatory manner?
The right of an adoption agency to make a decision based not on the welfare of the child, but on some redundant doctrinal point?

I suppose you object to laws against theft on the grounds that they threaten a burglar's 'right' to make a living.

Penny! It's only embarrassing for a child to be adopted by a gay couple if we stigmatise it and allow it to be presented as abnormal, rather than different.

Answer 6

I find it extraordinary that an organisation that has actively protected sexually abusing priests moving them from parish to parish IN ORDER to conceal their sexual offences AND in the certain knowledge that MORE Catholic children would be placed at risk of sexual abuse, let alone the persecution they have subjected the brave people who have come forward....
is not an organisation that should have responsibility for children until they have shown rather more contrition that they have done hiothertofore. The Catholic Church needs to do a bit more repentance before we let them any where near children , particularly vulnerable children. The idea that they have anything to say after such abuse to anyo of use about morality beggars belief let alone sexual morality or maybe they haven't heard of that guy Jesus: "He who has no sin, cast the first stone...."?

Whenever the Cardinal comes on the TV or Radio I feel rather sick....could it be the whiff of hypocrisy?

Answer 7

Contrary to popular belief I do believe that homosexuality is wrong, in the same way that peodophilia is wrong.
It may well be that both groups are unable to change their instincts, that does not mean that their instincts have to be obeyed. It is the actual obeyance of their instinct that is wrong.
That being the case it seems to me that gays have been given the right to insist that their beliefs and practices overrule those of other opposite-minded people, this cannot be right in a civilised so-called democracy.
It is also incorrect to say that the government have a right to pass this legislation, they never put any of these plans in their election manifesto and they can hardly claim that this is an urgent issue that came up without warning.
I wonder how many years hence will we see a child, who has been brought up in a gay household, suing the government because he was denied the chance to be brought up by a heterosexual couple and thus suuffered intolerable bullying etc at school and elsewhere.

Answer 8

speaking as a heterosexual adoptive parent,who has undertaken extensive training and been investigated beyond belief. before been allowed to adopt, i can honestly say there is absolutely NO reason why homosexuals weather in a relationship or not should be prevented from been allowed to adopt and offer a loving home to a child, i must ask do people really still take notice as one the oldest most oppressive organisation in history, the catholic church,surely we have developed more than that as a society

Answer 9

i agree with everything you said.

a close lesbian friend feels quite strongly about this, though she'd only ever enter a church to go to someone else's wedding.

But personally i would have understood if Blair had let them have their way. I'm an atheist now, but I have seen religion from the inside, and I know how they feel. They would have been wrong, but they're wrong about lots of things and it's a fool who thinks he can bring them out of that by legislation.

Contraception, on the other hand: now that's one I would get upset about. How dare religious leaders condemn millions to poverty by denying them birth control. That's a more damaging sin, in practical terms, horrible though prejudice is.

Answer 10

Does the child get any say in what they want in this ? I feel this is being left out in the debate. They are likely to have their own views - why is this not being mentioned ? If they are happy with the people adopting them then fine really but if they are not I think they should be able to say that too. It is down to them - no-one else.

Answer 11

How come you only want answers that agree with your views.everyone as their own views on any subject that you might ask,. You should have asked everybody who thinks gays should be able to adopt sign here. and sorry but I think it`s wrong ,A child needs both a mother and a father to have a balanced up bringing they should also be unbiased in their teachings when it comes to homosexuality religion or race that way a child will see all the aspects of life and have a better understanding.and more tolerance.