"Well behaved women rarely make history"....Can the same be (proudly) said of men?

Question

....I see this on bumper stickers. I'm sure it's mostly true. In addition to the above question, why the fear of being well-behaved, and the pride in behaving badly? Being well behaved does not have to mean being overly accomodating, being taken advantage of, or not being assertive.

Answer 1

Well, traditionally, and thus historically, being well-behaved DID mean being overly accommodating, submissive, and overly demure...for a woman. This "bumper sticker" is funny because it's ironic...women in the past had to "misbehave" in order to work toward the right to vote, fight for equal wages, and the right to an equal education. They were "ill-behaved" because they were bucking their traditional roles in society, and questioning the status quo, a big no-no for ANYONE, in those days (I'm referring specifically to the suffragette era). The irony is that today, this idea is used to "excuse" (ostensibly) another type of "bad" behavior altogether; the raunchy, self-exploitative behavior of young girls as evidenced by "Girls Gone Wild," and the like. The "ill-behaved" women of our past (who made history) began shedding millenia old social chains, and risked quite a bit to give all of us equal rights, now a lot of girls are shedding their clothes in a vain and false attempt at validation, and calling it "liberation." Please don't confuse this with feminism, or women's liberation in any form. They are putting those old chains right back on, with a drunken, leering grin.
As for men...different histories, different social constraints, different outlooks. My only answer is that, while I don't think the same could "proudly" be said of men, historically speaking, men's "bad behavior" has been overlooked, excused, and tolerated a great deal more, because of their historically higher social status...I don't know if I answered your question...I think I kinda went off on my own tangent.

Answer 2

The saying is adopted by feminists nowadays. It's the idea that in order to make change, you will have to stand up and go against the grain of society. This will sometimes pit you "against" society and no longer have you as the ideal suburban soccer mom cooking muffins with 2 children. It's not necessarily true -- some change does happen slowly (as generations age and die, and new generations are born), some change happens quickly (with revolutionary ideas, protests, etc.)

Answer 3

I would think that the meaning of the bumper sticker would relate to the fact that women were at one time expected to follow rules, orders and not upset the status quo. No gains would have been made in equality if these rules had be adhered to. Women who created the voice for feminism were the ones responsible for the gains made in pay, voting, educational opportunities, and status as far as being recognized as actual people and not possessions. I don't think that a man can appreciate exactly what that means since they have never experienced oppression in the same degree that women do.

Answer 4

Not for women either. I disagree the most effective women are the most "badly behaved ones".

Balanced should not be in terms of "well-behaved" though. More in terms of being a well rounded person, not taken to rash assumptions.

Assertive is a loaded word!!! There are many ways to get things done. Some of the most effective people may not at first site look assertive but they make things happen 'invisibly". These are the people male or female, you want leading an effective organization; the trick is to let them know they are appreciated.

Women by the way despite their own inner feelings, in positions of power, are not "over accomadating" and taken advantage of.

The only common fault I've seen in poor female bosses, is a tendency to "spare" people's feelings until its too late.

Answer 5

The point is that, throughout history, women who behaved well were basically women who were in subordinate positions to men. Women who have "behaved badly" are - and this is the joke - women who weren't subservient to men, not necessarily women who were acting like asses.

So, no, the saying can't easily be applied to men. A man behaving badly is just a jerk. A dude who behaves well wasn't necessarily subservient to anyone. Either path is open to men, but only one has historically been open to women.

The saying isn't promoting misbehavior: the saying is making a statement about what has been traditionally expected of women, and how that has held them back.

Answer 6

Goethe, a German Romanticist, wrote that following rules and regulations is very well and good, but it stifles genius and inhibits one to experience the full variety of the human experience.

Naturally, that's a crock. It's people who take chances, strive harder than their peers, and who show endless determination that succeed (or ones who are born into wealth, natch). Nothing about that says they can't be well-behaved. The bumper sticker you cited is something angry women use to justify being bitchy while they earn a BS in Womyn's Studies.

Or you could listen to the genius below me who cites Wikipedia and encourages you to look up "cyborg feminism." Good grief.

Answer 7

I think the quote is reference to the fact that throughout history, it has been in the past, the feminists who did not "tow the line" who won such things as the vote and changed societies attitudes towards women as being percieved as on par with cattle.

You see, in history, women were percieved as being of no greater worth than cattle and therefore were "owned" either by their fathers, or brothers (and therefore baught and sold through marriage) and used in exchange systems. (Like cattle)
In some places in the world, women are still treated the same as cattle or "being owned by father or husband).

We, as a culture, have only come so far in our advancement in terms, of how we think about women, because of the feminists who came before, Women who pointed out that they would not be "door mats" anymore (and therefore were percieved as behaving badly) because they were rejecting the status quo (which prefer that women remain "small and meek and kept off the streets".

"a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" Irina Dunn

Pro-feminist men are considered by some to be a stream of the modern men's movement sympathetic towards feminism. Pro-feminist men seek to add male voices to feminism and advocate change by men in their gender relations and social, political and institutional structures. It can be contrasted to men's liberation, which seeks to emancipate men in like manner to which women were liberated by the women's movement and feminism.

John Stoltenberg describes how he belives men can come to the struggle for women's equality in his book Refusing to be a Man:

"I'm thinking of those men whose feminist convictions spring from loyalty to a particular woman in their lives-a mother, a lover, a cherished friend-someone who has brought them to an intimate, almost insider's view of what life for women is like under male supremacy. These men have made a vow to stand beside her and not abandon her, to wholeheartedly be her ally. For such men, loyalty to a woman's life is experienced as a profound form of intimacy (not a threat to selfhood, as it might be for other men)."

Answer 8

my dear chap...being well-haved is a virtue! for both men and women! The problem is that not many people today are virtuous. We are of a dying breed.