Where do evolutionists think matter came from?

Question

I'm confused. I DO know the facts and it dosen't make sense to me. IF God didn't crete the hevans and earth, how does matter exist? I don't get it.
Also how did DNA form, my Mac computer didn't form by lightning hitting a pile of garbbage. Did it? If I told you that you would say I was an idiot. Yes you would don't lie.
I would like real awnsers to my questions please and NOT discrimantion of creation. I do beleive in creation, but evolution makes sense because God COULD have breathed life on the world. But, where did all the matter come from?

Yes I do know the facts secretsauce, I have taken a course that explord both creation and evolution. Personaly, I think that the only way evolution could exist is through a God setting life into motion with matter.

The bibble says God was always there, unfourtunitly this makes as much sense as all the elements were always there and somehow mingled together to create a sun ect.

See what I mean, most of you are getting defenceinve, I was not looking for an argument, I simply asked for a resonable awnser to my question. I see you are fumming now throwing insults. Maybe you don't know either. And it is now my place to tell you how God became, as far as I am concerned, he always was.

I didn't say creatures didn't adapt to their surroundings. One year a colony of butterflies turned brown to blend in to their surroundings. (by changing yes) Then turned white again. Leaving some brown but most white. But this does not awnser my question. I want to know where you think matter and DNA came from If there was no God.

secretsauce, I understand your argument, but if your going to pull an embyro fact on me I have one for you. If the liver of the puppy had grown inside of it like it definitly would durring evolution, there would be no dogs because the puppy is too small for it and would burst.

secretsauce I do know the facts, but I feel I must ask you this. You accuse me of challanging evolution. Thats fine, your loss.

You my friend are challanging creation. Evolutionists look at the facts for creation and shove them aside for the ever decreasing amount of Evolution wihout a creator. Maybe if we all set aside our difrences and become impartial and STUDY the facts from BOTH sides. We might find a true awnser. But since I am the only one willing to look at both sides I guess only I can say this.

When I was a little kid I would go to church and beleive in God. I would still beleive in God but would go to school and beleive in evolution. I saw no contridiction. Today I still feel the same. no condritiction. Think for a minue and look at both facts. Maybe if its possible for you to be impartial you can understand what you beleive.

By the way, after Charles Darwin published his book he denounced his theory on his death bed.

Answer 1

I'm afraid you do not know the facts.

First, "evolution" says nothing at all about the origin of matter. That is a question of physics and astrophysics. The theory of evolution concerns only BIOLOGY, and only that part that explains the development of all earth life from ancestry to single-celled organisms ... in other words Evolution doesn't even include the origin of LIFE, much less the origin of MATTER.

Second, your Mac analogy does not apply because Mac's don't reproduce with inheritance. DNA probably originated as a helper molecule to RNA, but took over because DNA is much better replicator (fewer errors) than RNA, and thus can support much longer strands, and thus much more complex organisms. RNA, on the other hand, while not as good a replicator, is a much better catalyst (although not as good as protein). So early life probably developed as short self-replicating strands of RNA, that were able to survive for many seconds at a time because (a) there was no oxygen breaking it down and (b) there were no other living organisms eating them. These simple strands of RNA were much much simpler than a "Mac being produced by a lightning hitting a pile of garbage".

In other words, it wasn't just a single lightning bolt ... but a billion years of lighting bolts hitting all the oceans on the planet (the world was once much more violent) ... or, more likely, pressurized high-temperature turbulence near volcanic vents at the ocean's depths.

But again, all that discussion about the origins of life (and matter) have NOTHING to do with evolution. The theory of how all modern life is related by common ancestry right back to early cells, is not speculation. That theory has rock solid evidence contained in such FACTS as: fossil evidence, genetics, molecular evidence, vestigial structures, homologous structures, atavisms, embryology, biogeography, immunology, virology, bacteriology, pest resistance, etc. etc. etc.

For example, the FACT that we need a different flu shot every year is evidence of evolution of the viruses that have evolved enough in one year that they are no longer vulnerable to last year's flu shot.

Or the FACT that dolphin embryos have distinct rear leg buds, and whales have remnants of hip and leg bones is evidence of evolution of cetaceans from land-dwelling animals.

{edit}

Why are you surprised at people getting "defensive." You claim to be being "confused" by this, but then say "I DO know the facts" ... but then you bring up that silly "Mac from lighting" example that has NOTHING to do with facts.

Now, there is nothing wrong with the idea that "God breathed life on the world" and then evolution occurred. But the tone of your question (and the placement in a Science forum) is as a challenge to "evolutionists." First, it has nothing to do with Evolution at all, and second it is not a scientific statement at all because there is no way to prove or disprove it.

In other words, I'm "defensive" because you are trying to justify a valid religious belief that needs no justification, using pseudo-scientific arguments. When you present bad science in a Science forum in a confrontational way, you are going to get hammered. In other words, I don't disagree with your philosophy ... just the confrontational way in which you present it.

And also, please understand that many of us see way too many creationists post BAD science questions in this forum. We get defensive because these are always the same weak arguments (similar to your "Mac from a lightning bolt" example ... others have been "Volkswagen from a hurricane", or "calculator on the moon", whatever. They all make the same mistake ... Macs, Volkswagens, and calculators do not REPLICATE WITH INHERITANCE.)

{edit}

You wrote: "By the way, after Charles Darwin published his book he denounced his theory on his death bed."

ACK, NO! Not that ridiculous story again! It is simply NOT TRUE. A fabricated LIE made up by Lady Hope. Even answersingenesis.com has concluded that the story is false.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i1/darwin_recant.asp

And it is not only false but, even if true would be IRRELEVANT. There are no "take backs" in science. A theory stands on the merits of its evidence, not on the state of mind of its originator.

That's the difference between creationists and scientists. Creationists have absolutely no mechanisms for distinguishing true FACTS from absolute bulls**t and eliminating the latter. Scientists do. It's called the scientific method. There are bogus facts and frauds that enter the discussion, but these are exposed by relentless scrutiny by other scientists. Once scientists disprove a FACT it stays disproved, forgotten, ignored. Creationists are not only incapable of filtering out bogus facts (like that "Darwin recanted" story), or distinguishing relevant from irrelevant ... but even when the "fact" is proven to be bogus, there are still creationists who continue to resurrect it over and over and over.

Between the Darwin-recanted "fact" and that bizarre puppy-liver "fact", and the Mac from lightning "fact", this reveals why we cannot just examine the facts from BOTH sides ... because one side just MAKES FACTS UP.

Answer 2

"Where do evolutionists think matter came from? I don't get it. "

Evolution doesn't deal with the creation of the universe. People who can take science for granted (as in, more knowledgeable than religion without question) would commonly believe that the Big Bang resulted in the existence of all matter & possibly time in the universe.

"Also how did DNA form, my Mac computer didn't form by lightning hitting a pile of garbbage. Did it?"

DNA is likely the result of a necessity to store details of protein structure. It's unlikely that DNA simply formed in it's entirety in an instant but is more likely to have developed over time from simpler structures.

Comparing anything natural to a manmade object in this context will always be a flawed analogy. Man mad objects are organised on a macro level and generally made of materials not found in nature. Chemicals are more predictable than a pile of assorted junk, if you set burn a particular chemical you can expect a predicted result, if you burn a pile of junk you don't know what's going to happen. To be fair, if you had enough time and could work out the complications, you could probably set up a huge array of chemicals and substances that, when struck by lightning, automatically process themselves into a Mac. It's unlikely but not impossible.

"The bibble says God was always there, unfourtunitly this makes as much sense as all the elements were always there and somehow mingled together to create a sun ect."

Indeed it does raise an issue or an exception rather in the creationist argument that nothing can come from nothing. It seems that God is exempt from having to come from something and being complex therefore requiring a designer.

Your description of solar genesis is slightly flawed though - elements didn't just "mingle together", suns require immense density rather than particular elements. They only need enough matter to ignite via fusion.

"By the way, after Charles Darwin published his book he denounced his theory on his death bed."

I'm not even going to comment on that statement.

Answer 3

Your question has nothing to do with evolution by natural selection. The creation of the universe is the domain of cosmologist and requires extensive study of mathematics, physics and astronomy. The origin of life or biogenesis is somewhat tied to evolution but one applies natural selection only after the origin of self-replicating organisms.

Take a moment to think about your objection and how incredibly egocentric it is. Your objection is an argument based upon ignorance and non-comprehension. Because you cannot comprehend the science, it must be wrong and no one else can possibly know more than you.

If you don’t understand electromagnetism, do you then have to assume that the lights come on and the electricity flows because it’s the work of a god?

Here's a short essay that won't satisfy the bible thumpers but it might interest others.

Answer 4

This is a physics question and not a biology/evolution question, so I'll venture over from the physics answers to help.

And the answer is:

Ultimately, we don't know.

Evidence of many sorts (astronomy, particle physics, nuclear physics, atomic physics) leads us to believe that all the matter/energy in the universe was crammed into a teeny tiny space many billions of years ago. We are coming to understand how the process worked after the first tiny fraction of a second. As cosmology (mostly via elementary particle physics) advances, we push back our knowledge to a tinier and tinier time and space.

But it's doubtful if we'll ever understand the very beginning or if there was anything "before" the beginning. Who knows. I think science will always leave a little window of hope open for people who are scared to believe that their existences don't have an externally-imposed meaning and need a creator to comfort them. And that's okay--just so long as the religious folks don't feel the need to impose the biblical picture of history (young universe, no evolution, etc) on science.

By the way, the story that Darwin recanted on his deathbed is a canard. http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2193 among many other sources. And even if it weren't true, that wouldn't matter. Folks believe Darwin's theory (or updated versions of it) because the evidence supports it, not because of Darwin himself.

Answer 5

Matter came from the Big Bang that started the universe. Why must the creationist crowd think that science and God must not co-exist?

Think of it this way: The bible may tell you why the world was created, but science tells you how. Come on. Think about it. The two can exist and both "be right." Just don't think that the world is 5000 years old and the dinosaurs are recently deceased, evolution is not going on or whatever. You can use your brain and be religious. Look at Einstein.

Answer 6

Science hasn't answered the question of "where does/did matter come from" yet. While science continues to explain many, many things (think of how much more we know about the world and our universe now that just a few hundred years ago!), there are plenty of gaps still to be investigated. That's why science is an ongoing and exciting field.

I think like you do - that creation and science/evolution don't really contradict each other. Just because science can explain the mechanisms of physics, or cells, or DNA doesn't mean that God didn't create it all.

Answer 7

Not many scientists are convinced that just evolution created us the way we are. Many believe that evolution might have played an important role in making us better suited for the climate and the environment on earth and made us more survivable, but it started somewhere else. There has been talks in scientific communities about possibilities of aliens or other super-beings creating us (believe me this is no sci-fiction). Recently it was discovered that probably life exists in the space and is floating around on asteroides, comets and even independently in some kind of half-alive state (just like viruses keep themselves when they don't have a host). The discussion started after an incident of red-rain in southern India.
Other theories prove that life on Earth came from Mars, where it later got extinct but survived here. However, all this discussion leads to further question - where did life on Mars or outer-space came from. Somewhere something or somebody created it, and if that is somebody, then who created him/her.
I don't want to contradict your beliefs, but there seems only one possible reasoning for this chicken and egg story; that the life started all by itself. It might not be on Earth, and it might not be due to lightning striking the garbage, but something, somewhere, somehow.

Answer 8

This has nothing to do with evolution but it is discussed in creationist thought. Science is unsure how matter exists, only that it does, and it's composed of subatomic particles. The matter that you are created from, the carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen, it arose from the earth, which ultimately arose from the sun as it condesed from a plasma disc 4.6 billion years ago.

Frankly I don't care what you believe, but you should at least know evolutionary theory and the principles of science; hypothesis leading to rigorous experimentation to test the hypothesis. Try not to get too bent out of shape in the creationist debate; no scientist worth his/her salt really cares if you believe the earth was formed in 7 days in 4.6 billion years.

Answer 9

you don't understand....

to you...it doesn't seem logical that anything could be created without God

other people don't think it makes sence that some all powerful creature created everything

how was God created?
did lightning hit a pile of garbage?

there aren't answers to your question
and you're just not seeing the other side of the argument
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i hope you weren't refering to me as a defensive insulter,
as i didn't mean to (and don't think that i did) insult you.

i'll try another route at making my point

you say you know the "facts"
it's not a "fact" that God created anything
it's not a "fact" that any of the THEORIES about evolution or correct.
and i realize that your question was regarding where we think matter came from.
i'm just trying to say that people can think that Unicorns and My Little Ponies got together and created everything. that doesn't mean that anybody's any closer to understanding what really happened

Answer 10

matter came from the stars. When the went supernova, the cores were dispersed into space, and are a product of millions of years of stellar evolution, fused from hydrogen.

DNA comes from the evolutionary process of reproduction, it evolved just like everything else.