when once, ?

Question

the question is the “when once” at the beginning of this paragraph.
When once the Latin tongue had ceased to be a normal vehicle for communication, and was replaced as such by the vernacular language, then it most speedily became a mental gymnastic, the supremely “dead” language….(extracted from: Approaches & Methods – Jack C. Richards). Admittedly what I couldn’t digest and get along with is, placing of “when” and “once” together, while to me “once” in this sentence denotes the same as “when”.if not for emphasis or suchlike then how they can be used this way together so that this combination of these two words, to me seems like you say: as I was wondering how to operate the machine, he instructed me which button I should press, then immediately at once I did the right one. You see in the above example which I made it myself to make my point crystal clear, you will notice that we can’t have “immediately at once”, these two words together,can we?.
thanks for your answers and comment

Answer 1

I agree, it sounds redundant. But depending on the time that Approaches & Methods was written, it could have been a common practice and perfectlly acceptable to write or talk that way. Writting and speach patterns change over time, and what we think is redundant or just odd was once the norm. If people from the past could hear the way we talk now they would think we were from a different planet!

Answer 2

Hi Reza. Here's what I think: While I agree that it seems "when once" is redundant, I think in this instance it makes the author's point. Once being the very exact point when the Latin tongue ceased to be a normal vehicle for communication, and answering the question of "when..did it become a dead language." When? Once. Using "When the Latin tongue.." or "Once the Latin tongue.." would have arguably been sufficient; I think that combining the two creates a sharper, more defined turning point in the description.

Answer 3

The combination "When once. . . . . . then. . . . " indicates that the first set of things (where the dots are) had to have taken place BEFORE the second set (the second bunch of my dots)

For example:
When once the puppy got potty trained, then the family could let it into the fancy living room.

See? One set of conditions had to be met before the second thing could take place.

In your paragraph, -latin stopped being used everyday and a 'vernacular' was spoken THEN latin became a dead language.

Answer 4

To me it looks redundant. Suppose we say "When the Latin tongue was...", it would be easy and understandable (and correct). If we go with "Once the Latin tongue was...", same thing: proper usage. But putting them together seems unnecessary and pretentious.

Answer 5

How long ago was this written? It sounds archaic to me, and reminds me of a Jane Austen poem, When Winchester Races:

When once we are buried, you think we are gone
But behold us immortal, he said.

(I think.) She wrote it on her deathbed, 1818, and either she or her sister who transcribed it didn't want to write "dead" which rhymes with said.

Anyway, yeah I agree with you, but it's not as bad as "immediately at once".