who likes and dislikes clinicians?

Question

from own experiences i really do not like them... i am experienced rider and trainer(also show) and use to run my moms boarding stable(lots of city slickers). from the experience with the stable, everyone used clinicians and ruined their horses. why cant these so called "clinicians" learn to be able to teach green people where they dont end up ruining a bunch of horses? for example-ray hunt and clinton anderson dont need to be teaching people to buck out a horse that has had the saddle put on it the first time....why scare the horse in the first place. it only cause problems and not to mention "newbies" getting hurt and not being able to handle the horse... just want to see what others think... maybe i would think different bout it if they could understand that there are so many newbies and idiots out there that need things to be explained to them like a four year old.

u dont need to buck a horse out to get it use to a saddle. they buck out of fear. as for my experience.. yes i was born into the life of horses but i have delt with many people that have not. they go to clinics and i have watched for myself to see why these people come back to the barn and ruin theres and others horses. clinicains need to make it clear to these people that are unexperienced that they are not horse trainers there first year of being round horses. it takes years of experience to learn how to become a trainer... i dont have a problem with new people in the horse world owning horses, i just think clinicians should be more careful what they teach and relize no horse is the same. i have seen it over and over and the clinicans i have see only think their way is the only way... the result- newbies hurt and horses ruined

Answer 1

Clinicians are just the next big fashion, and they are ruining the horse world. They do things for a quick fix and a quick buck. Clinton hits his horses in the head with a stick when they get 'too close' and encourages others to do so. Then people wonder why their horse doesn't like them and runs off when they go to catch them. Let's hit those idiots in the head with a stick and then see if they still want to be our friends. It may work for them, but inexperinced people shouldn't use the methods, and if inexperinced people can't use them,then they shouldn't be used because horses are like little kids and things need to stay simple. Why put a horse into a sitution when you know he is going to fail it? That causes confusion and the ruining of young minds. Why can't people just take the time to spend time with their horses? You really get to know your horse and you really learn how to read him, and in the long run you build a lasting relationship because your horse is content because you understand him. I can tell when my mare wants a cold bucket of water or a warm one, just by the way she looks at me. Other people see a blank face, but because I spent sooo much time with her, I see words and even sentences. I may sound crazy, but this came from owning the mare since she was 6 months old and she is now 6. When I train a horse I take the time to get to know it, I spend about a week with the horse before I actually start training. The horse learns to trust me and depend on me,so when I first put the saddle on, for the very first time in his life and HE DOES NOT BUCK. and they never do. they may bunch up a little but they stick close to me and don't buck. They learn very quickly with no stress, and no bad memories.

Answer 2

I do not go to any trainers/clinics other than a once a month lesson with a dressage trainer that visits the barn (I ride 1st level). I did the stupid thing- green rider (I was 12 yrs) and green horse (3 months). I am now 21. First horse I cantered on was my mare. Luckily, the only time I have ever fallen off of her was when she spooked and the stirrup broke. My broken bones came from other horses.
Anyways, I think that clinics are a good idea. Yes, a lot of people abuse them and think that working their horse over a 3 day weekend is going to solve all of their problems (yet they only ride once a month at the clinic). I know a lot of people who use parelli and some that go to Clint. Some of the ideas look pointless to me, and I can get my horse to do it without a carrot stick, or I do not expect her to always come to me when I call. There is hay or a scrap of grass on the ground- I know I will always come second to food and that is ok with me.\

What I like about the trainers/clinics is that it makes people spend some time with their horses. I hate seeing horses just sit there and be stuck in a run or stall all day long. If paying $200 to talk to a well-known trainer gets them to work with their horse, even for a little bit, I am all for it.
As for your comment of people bucking out a horse that had the saddle on it the first time- I am not sure what you mean about scaring it. Horses need to learn to accept the saddle. All babies we train at our barn get used to the weight of a saddle and a surcingle from about a year and it gets tightened more as the time goes on.
Some cowboys have a different way of training- get the horse used to the saddle and a rider in one day- it works and they have calm horses, but I can only last so many bucks.
As for all "city slickers ruining their horses"- you sound more angry and pissed off at everyone than everything else. How did you learn to ride horses? Learned from your mother? Everyone has to learn somehow. Not everyone was born into horses. You are making it sound like only "experienced" riders can own a horse. There has to be some way to gain experience, and for most, that is the only way to.
And w/ Clint- I only know one of his methods that was used on a dressage horse- tried it out and it worked better than anything else I was told ( in short, pull horse in tight circle when hard in the mouth and spooking) Worked excellent for my gawky mare.

Answer 3

I like clinicians, but there are only three that I really like. Monty Roberts, Matt Sheridan, and Stacy Westfall. I don't like Clinton Anderson's methods because:
1. I can't understand anything he says.
2. Like you, I don't think a person should buck out a horse that has the saddle put on for the first time.
I think that trying to teach a horse to do something takes time. You can't expect immediate results right away.

Answer 4

Here's the way I look at clinicians. You have to learn from them what is best for your horse. Some clinicians have good ideas in certain areas and not others. I like Clinton Anderson for some things, but I agree with you on the b ucking out.

Going to a clinic and blindly following everything the clinician says, despite the fact that YOU know your horse far better than they do is, ridiculous. A clinician I would really respect is one that would help you to develop ways to work with your horse and yourself to find that perfect bond and such. I love some of Parelli's methods, but others I find pointless. John Lyons has a few good ideas.

Its sort of like Philosophy. We make our own personal philosophy, a lot of it comes from reflecting in our thoughts and our experiences, and a lot of it comes from knowledge gained from listening to others. If I listened to and believed everything every philosopher ever wrote then I'd be going in all kinds of directions. Or, if i believed everything one philosopher said without exploring on my own, I'd be blind.

Answer 5

Newbies and "idiots" are trying to learn. You also started out as a newbie/idiot at one point, but obviously much longer ago than the people you are pointing fingers at. I agree that there are certain people who shouldn't be doing what they are doing with their horses, but I'd rather see them in a clinic or with a trainer than out in their back yard cowboying their horse around. I regularly ride with a natural horsemanship clinician, a Tai Chi clinician, and dressage clinicians, and will be auditing a Ray Hunt clinic at my farm this spring. However, I did start riding with a trainer who taught me the basics before I ever tried to ride with a clinician. I currently ride with a trainer who trains locally, rides in the clinics with me (and her other "students") and works with everyone in between clinics to give everyone the background to effectively participate and use the information from the clinic. I think it is unfair to hate clinics and clinicians for the people who don't understand their horses or what they are getting themselves into. I'm sure if you look into your own barn (or your mother's) there are peole with more money than sense who don't take the traditional route to learn the background they need before they buy a horse, try to train it and ruin it. What I'm saying is that there are people everywhere in horses of the level you are speaking that don't have the experience or talent to do what they are doing, whether its in clinics doing things they don't understand, the show arena jumping too high for their ability, or in their backyard starting a horse without experience.

On a side note, Ray Hunt is one of the most well respected clinicians in the natural horsemanship field. He is one of the few clinicians who will remove a rider from the clinic if he feels that they are in over their head, whereas many others will work with them and baby them through. If you've been to a clinic of his, or know any other clinicians in his field, he is well respected for his desire to keep his riders safe. I have never seen him buck a horse out with a rider on. The goal of true natural horsemanship is to never have a horse go through that. The "definition", if you will, is training from the horses point of view and doing what is best for the horse. Any true NH trainer would NEVER buck out a horse in the manner you are implying. There are alot of people who have gone through the Parelli system, or who have been to a few clinics and call themselves trainers but don't understand the background ideas behind what they are teaching (we have one locally who is well known for the cowboy methods you are talking about).