To Egyptian Muslims and Muslims in general ....... ??

Question

What do you think of non-Islamic banks? i.e. normal banks? Do you think that the interest you get is usury (reba) and thus "haram" or do you think it's not? If not then what's your justification of it being "halal"?
By the way, I wanna add that I'm not with or against normal banks. I'm really very confused. Sometimes I'm like of course they're haram, other times I'm like they sure ar halal.
So what do you think and why??

OK, until now I'm not totally convinced with either opinion, but I have some replies.

The first is that I want to mention a point that usually arises when this discussion is open, which wasn't mentioned here once; inflation. Money loses its value by time, thus, one of the arguments of those who think that banks are halal is that interest covers inflation. What would be the point if you lend the bank 100 pounds only to get them 10 years later as such, BUT with a lesser value?

Second, why did some of you say that Islamic banks are not that halal either? I studied how they work, and if (and only IF) that's ACTUALLY how they work, then it's not haram!! You invest, and you get an interest that VARIES accorfing to whether the project obtained profits or lost.

Third, some of you, e.g. loly pop said that it's not haram because it's an investment. But when you invest, you may win, and may lose. And if you win, you may get 5% profit, 10% or whatever! But in banks, you get e.g. 11% profit all

(sorry there wasn't enough space)
you get e.g. 11% profit ALL the time! Regardless of whether the project won or lost!

Fourth, to the one who said that it's a conroversial issue even between "el fokaha2" themselves, according to what I know, it's not. Accoring to what I know they agree it's haram. Please correct me if I'm wrong and tell me who said this as I would wanna read his opinion.

And I have a question to those who said Islamic banks are also haram, WHAT are we supposed to do with our money? Where shall we keep it?

I'm NOT looking for a fatwa, I know this is not the right place for it. I'm wondering what everybody thinks and what YOU are doing with your own money.

In the end I wanna emphasize that I respect all your opinions and my questions and comments above are real questions, not that I'm trying to prove you wrong or anything!

Thanks! :)

Answer 1

Okay I recieve interest, but in the same time IMHO I believe it's Reba, the problem is that I'm obliged to save my money in a "Reba-dealing" bank so I guess that relieves the whole thing a little..
but in general, I think it's Haram...for the investment thing mentioned above, it's not true, if so, then you're supposed to recieve interest when the investments go well, and lose some other days, also, the interest is a fixed percentage so this is NOT investment.
Stock exchange is investment, because there are chances to Gain and Lose, unlike Bank interests which are always a "fixed percentage gain" !

As for the "Justification", I wouldn't really try to justify it, the thing is, when something is "Haram" I shouldn't try to justify it in anyway so as to turn it into a "Halal" act.

The only justification I guess is "being obliged" to deal with them..

Your question at least shows that they are (if not Haram) a "Shubha" as such, also...
"الإثم ما حاك في نفسك و كرهت أن يطلع عليه الناس"

It's obvious you don't feel okay with it, and I myself am not feeling very good at all with it..
So it's either Haram or a Shubha...and "Shubha"s are better to be avoided.

Finally, I'm not a religious advisor and I don't have the right to state if a thing is Haram or Not, I understood you were asking us about our own Opinions, but if you're looking for a Fatwa that wouldn't be the place to ask of course, and I wouldn't be the person to give it also..

Answer 2

Hey there,
Nice question. Everybody I know says it is Halal. I believe it is so Haram. I think so for the following reasons:
1- You give money to the bank.
2- The bank gives you a "fixed" interest.
3- How does the bank get money for the interests?
4- The answer: through projects.
5- Does the bank actually do these projects by itself?
6- Answer :No!! The bank loans money to people who do the projects themselves and then they give "fixed" interests to the bank.
7- Who are those people ?
8- Answer: Normal people like you and me. Not all of them are big time business men. The majority of them are hard working people who are going through bad times and they need the money desperately to :for example, help their sons and daughters to marry or pay for an operation.
9- Does everybody manage to settle their debts eventually and pay everything ?
10- Answer: NO. Many people go to jail.
11: Conclusion: Rich people who put their money in the banks get richer and poor people who borrow the money get poorer. This is exactly why Islam prevented us from doing so.
Yet again, this is my own point of view. Some of my relatives have their money in the bank. They have huge beards and their daughters wear a complete veil. They are postive that this is clean money and they built huge buildings from it. I know I will never take a dime from a bank interest even if I had to beg for money.

Addition:

U raised some issues about the "Banks " thing. I think I wanna only comment on one of them. To say that "Inflation" justifies the interest thing would be like saying, "yeah I know it's Haram, but I am only going to do it cuz of inflation" The same concept could be applied to stealing.
Even more, inflation maybe caused partly by the whole bank interest thing.
As I said before, I am taking my interest money from the "people" not from some where else. It's the people who pay for it, and inflation goes for them too.

Answer 3

I thought about that too, a lot. The forbidden form of lending money that was cursed by Islam, in my understanding, is the form that makes you go in an endless circle of need and debt. the form that uses human beings and exploit their need, the form that will lend you 1000 L.E. because you need it urgently, and knowing that from the lender, he want it back 1500, knowing that you have no one else to borrow from and that you can't afford not to take it. That what i call "Reba"
Now, i know that the bank system nowadays is not pure "Rebba" as mentioned in Qura'an, but i am aware enough that it has its faults too, and it's cruel and cold blooded, if you for some good reasons, couldn't pay your debt regularly.
What i see as absolutely GREAT idea, is what Muhammad Younis did to Bangladesh and won the Noble Prize for Peace for it. He lend to very poor people a sum of 6 billion US$ and drag 58% of the customers from the deadlock of poverty.
What he did is what i call 100% Hallal.

P.S.
Islamic banks are not islamic as you think. When you go deep in the system you'll find out that it's practically the same, it's just a good front for the people who loves the outside appearances.

Answer 4

Investing money in " normal banks" can't be called haram or halal...simply coz muslim scientists have different opinions in this matter , and each has his own justifications. I.e. u can't say that this opinion is right and the other is wrong...because each opinion has its justifications and proofs.

( In the science of religion "fekh"...there are 2 main types of issues:
1- Issues that all scientist agree on it..or there 's no controversery about it. for ex :praying is a duty, Alcholics and adultery are haram..etc

2- Issues where scientists disgreed within each other about them ...each with his own justifications. Ex: investing money in non -islamic banks...etc. And in such cases, Usually both opinions are considered correct, and you can't say that this is wrong or right because each opinion has its own justifications. )

Another thing...If u r really confused about this matter...then go and ask ppl who really understand in these issues on basis. Posting ur question here will make u more confused..because answers will be just personal opinions...and I believe that personal opinions in issues like this will take u no where.

Answer 5

Although I take interest but I know it is Reba for ure. Actually it's the biggest from of reba ever in history. People say it's like investing but it's not. When you invest your money you risk loosing your capital or part of it unlike banks. People compare reba practices in the old days and banks and they say that no one is forcing anyone to take credit like the old days but it's not the way u should look at it. Haram is not always haram because it's harmful it's haram because God said it is. God made meat around bones haram for jews at one point of time because they were disobedeints. If we can make pork harmeless it doesn't mean it's not haram.

Answer 6

this is a very good question, i always think about it...i was working in a bank n i left it cuz i heared that working on convincing people to get loans is 7aram so i was really afraid to get money from something is not halal...about the intrest that u get from putting a deposite for a specific period, i'm not sure if it's rebba or not, some say it is others say no...
but i have a question here, wt if there is an old lady who lives alone n all wt she gets for living is this intrest from this deposite? wt if this intrest is the only source of living for a poor family?

from my point of view which i donno if it's true ot not, is that i dont see it is a rebba cuz the bank takes ur money n work on them , n he gets profits n the intrest u get is ur part of sharing these money with the bank....i'm still not sure i'm just depending on my thoughts, but maybe it's a rebba..i donno n i hope it's not....

but wt i'm sure about is taking a personal loan (and not a car loan) is a rebba, cuz the bank is using that u need money n it makes u pay big inrest....

Answer 7

I strongly believe that interests are rebba,however I'm not sure how it goes on the so called Islamic banks,so when I though about opening an account for my kid I was so confused till I knew about the Egyptian post organization where you can have an account and choose not to receive any interests so that was the most relieving solution for me.

Answer 8

Yeah it's haram. Muslims are forbidden from gaining money by reba. The problem is that banks add interest to our banked money. Personally, I take the interest money and pay it to the poor. But know this, the interest money u payed to the poor won't be counted in your good deeds because Allah doesn't accept any reba money whatsoever even if your gonna to pay it on Hajj!

Answer 9

Only narrow minded muslims think it's Reba & haram.it's just a business partnership between you and the bank.You give them your money and they invest it for you and you both split the profit.What's wrong with that.& where do you think islamic banks get their money? they are just using the world islamic to make people feel more comfortable.Islamic banks are just like normal banks and they Are both ok. HALAL

Answer 10

I think reba is everywhere whether in muslim or normal banks. It's sad to say but it's true. It doesn't matter whether its normal or muslim as long as you can trust that your money will be safe.