What's the best way to "cure" collective wishful thinking?

Question

maybe I'm just young still, but I don't fear death. It was around the age of 25, in an auto-accident that I realized and accepted how mortal I really am, and developed the idea that most people are "religious" (to whatever extent) in large part because they don't want to accept that they are mortal. At some point some guys conceived the idea of a soul, as in something that exists separately from the physical body of a person, and can continue to exist after the physical body ceases to function, and even after it ceases to exist. Well, that is total rubbish and merely wishful thinking, and one of the most ludicrous ideas expounded on in religions... the only idea I can think of that's more ludicrous isn't immaculate conception or resurrection or prophecy, all of which are similarly ludicrous, but not as preposterous as the fable in the first page of the bible that woman was created from a man's rib.

Anyway, preposterous beliefs like the timeless existence of the soul seem less preposterous when one clings to a wide array of ludicrous ideas, sort of like the supporting beliefs are the "spoonful of sugar that help the medicine go down" (they make the preposterous but desirable belief of immortality more believable). Anyway, religion gives (in most cases coerces them to accept) a huge set of ridiculous beliefs so that the one erroneous but strongly desired belief (of one's immortality) can be maintained. Most religious people will not admit that the only reason they are religious is due primarily to their fear of mortality, as well as their fear of social estrangement. Collective wishful thinking... similar to the non-religious (and now decaying) collective wishful thinking held by most Americans that the US is not in Iraq to steal (the oil), which has thousands of it's own supporting (erroneous) beliefs (i.e., lies) which are used to help maintain that desired belief.

It's also collective denial, with religion denying mortality, and Americans denying their collective selfishness and greed and the sin/injustice of theft (our "evil-doing").

I hope it is now understood what I mean by "collective wishful thinking" and my question is how can we individually and collectively combat/correct this form of thinking which has such dire consequences? For the given examples such consequences are individuals not living life to it's fullest by believing it lasts forever and nations going to war and increasing pain, hate. misery and suffering.)

Rainy,
Sounds a lot like what Chris Rock said in Dogma, much to the effect, I have ideas, not beliefs...



Yoga Rani,
In what way can you perceive a soul? And how do you perceive the supposed transference of a soul from one entity to another? The reason I don't believe as you is because there is no way I am aware of to perceive such things, which means they are most likely untrue. They could be true, and I don't rule them out as possibilities, but I don't accept them as fact without some evidence, either.

What I was asking: "my question is how can we individually and collectively combat/correct this form of thinking which has such dire consequences?" Collective wishful thinking = (erroneous) beliefs that are shared by a collective of people in order to maintain their denial about an unpleasant truth, which ends up leading to very negative consequences. (your example of collective ecological irresponsibility is quite fitting/good, too)

magistra_linguae,
I'm 32. It's nice to find someone who gets the idea. Your explanation of why they can't discard even one preposterous belief reminds of something I came up with a few years ago, what I call a "house of cards belief system." Where each belief is a card, and they are all stacked up on each other, if one of the crucial beliefs is removed the whole thing comes crashing down (although some little ones near the top can be removed fairly easily without any major destruction). This relates to "cult deprogramming", in which the idea is to slowly take down the house of cards at a pace the person can handle emotionally. Each cult has different beliefs, so it is hard for an outsider to help deconstruct a person's house of cards unless they are very familiar with the beliefs involved. Most religions (and political systems) are not regarded as cults by the mainstream of people or cult exit-counselors (since they are a part of those (what are essentially very large) cults).

And such "deprogramming" occurs on the individual level normally, or sometimes in small groups. My goal is to find a way to tone down collective wishful thinking on a grand scale (deconstructing the house of cards in a large number of people at one time), as, sadly, people seem to spread more quickly than rationality.

Answer 1

I know exactly what you're talking about by "collective wishful thinking," and I agree entirely. Are you sure you're only 25? You sound awfully mature for your age.

I'm not really sure there is a cure for collective wishful thinking, however, it is helpful to understand that it is a result of a psychological defense mechanism, as you point out. I think that people who adopt rigid, oversimplified belief systems do so because they have a psychological need for clear, black and white answers to their questions. They cannot handle uncertainty or ambiguousness; they cling to any explanation which makes things seem clearer. Hence, every behavior is either right or wrong. "You're either with us, or you're against us" is their mantra, and they totally believe it. They are incapable of comprehending the nuance or complexity of reality.

So what can you do about that? Not much, really. There's no way to logically argue them out of their beliefs, because each belief is tied so securely to the next that were a single one to fall, all the rest would fall with it. They simply CANNOT admit they are wrong about a single point. To do so would require them to admit they are wrong about their entire system, and they're not going to admit that.

I suppose the best you can hope for is that occasionally their black and white thinking will cause them to screw up on a really large scale, and that if the resulting chaos is bad enough, they might finally have to question their simplistic approach to life, religion, and politics. But I wouldn't expect too much of a reversal. After all, the war in Iraq has been one of the biggest foreign policy SNAFUs in the history of the United States, yet all Bush can bring himself to admit is that "mistakes were made." After listening to his speech over the "new way forward," I think it's pretty clear that the new way is nothing but the same old way, slightly repackaged.

Answer 2

I am not sure what you are really asking. Are you stating your prespective or asking a question?

I am not clear on what you mean by "collective wishful thinking".

I think it's wishful thinking to beleive that we can continue to live on this planet, be able to drink the water, breathe the air and eat the produce here if we keep over consuming in the face of our own pollution and obvious signs of climactic change.

Re: biblical stories, it's easiest to negate the feminine to have Mary a virgin, and have nothing really to do with her related to Jesus' birth. It's also easier to discount Mary Magdelaine, by branding her a whore when she was actually the wife of Jesus. It's also easy to negate womankind by saying woman was made of Adam's rib. The bible was written in particularly mysogynistic times, and practicing such a religion actually leads to negating all things of a feminine nature including preserving the earth, having balance between rich and poor...

Human religions will always fail, as people and their egos and agendas get involved, and mess it up.

A person actually does have a spirit, and it doesn't sit there and hang out after someone dies, it chooses another body. The spirit is much more than something that exists outside your body, it actually guides you through life, if you will listen.

Yes, you are young, full of passion, don't let reason desert you!
On what grounds do you think you do not have a spirit, soul, or Higher Self?

Blessings,

Rani

Answer 3

Obviously your accident wasn't all that bad. You must not of got close enough to the other side. No O.B.E or bright light huh? I guess the floating above my body was just the endorphins in my brain. I must have been dreaming that the lights of the ambulance under me were just a vision of ludicrous delusion. My brain thinking that it was just an illusion that I looked over to my home as I passed by it on that cold February morning. I don't fear death either. I know that there is another dimension. I chose to come back, believe me It would have been easier to have died than to live. I wanted to feel the cold air on my skin... I wanted to feel the warm sun on my body... I wanted to hear the birds sing... I wanted to finish my purpose. Some guys must have made up all that stuff. Just so you could ask this question. You are entitled to your views, just as I am to mine. One day you will wish to feel the sun on your body, and then maybe my answer will mean something to you. I guess I will just switch off the light... just like you think your life will end.

Answer 4

The Judgment is negative, the Will is positive. When life experiences spur the Judgment beyond the tolerance of the Soul,
i.e. when there is so much to be negative for, the Will finds its way through that which remains for it. What it is that forms the Judgment directs the Will (not forms it nor informs it, but the Judgment of another could). Why negate the positive; that makes the totality of existence nothing.

Perhaps you could study the formation for the Judgment.

Answer 5

It's easier to change an idea than a beleif,and that is what your talking about . Changing peoples beleifs. Good luck with that.