My Dad may have to go into care.The council can force him to sell his house to pay for it.Is there a way out?

Question

Dad is suffering from advancing Alzheimers. Mum died last April. Dad served in the Paras in WW2 in France,Holland,Germany & Palestine & was wounded twice. He worked for the same Company (Tate&Lyle) from Demob in 1946 to retirement at 65. I feel the country OWES him (I'm off my soapbox now!) My idea is: He sells the house to me,my brother & sister for a nominal sum and becomes our tenant. Would this work?

Answer 1

Some Councils want the house, some don't so check as to what your local council do first.
If you do as you say then the council would argue that you had done this deliberatley to avoid them getting the house. They would take you to court and you would lose and they would get the house. You would also be subject to tax on the rent!!
If your mum died last April, you may be able to use a Deed of Variation to alter the Will and by rewording and using a Nil Rate Band Trust, you could probably provide some form of protection aginst the council BUT you must see a Financial Adviser who specialises in Inheritance Tax about this. Dont bother with a solicitor UNLESS they are specialists in this area. Most are not and have no idea what to do!!!.
Good luck.

PS as he was in the armed forces, approach the British Legion who can provide a wealth of help.

Some of the advice from the people above is rubbish and illegal so take care.

Answer 2

The only way round this that I can see at the moment is:- sell his house & yours & buy another property with a granny annexe, have your Dad come live with you and have a council carer come in twice a day, morning & evening. You will have to pay for this service BUT it isn't a lot, then after a couple of years as his official carer you can then start approaching the council for him to go into care. The thing is you have got to be crafty here and make them see that YOU were willing to care for him up to the point whereby you are no longer QUALIFIED to do so, on that basis they cannot force you to sell your home JUST because your Dad put up money to get a place that could home him where you could look after him for as long as you could. I hope this helps....if you need any further advice contact Age Concern they will give you free advice as to how to go about things & will help you get things that you will need to help care for your Dad.

Answer 3

Persons with assets over £19500 including their home are liable to pay for care, however your home is not counted as an asset if a partner of any age, relative over 60 an incapacitated relative or child under 16 who you maintain still lives there.
There are instances in which the local authority may have to pay for care, eg some provisions of the Mental Health Act
helplines

Nursing Home Fees Agency 0800 998 833

Age Concern 0800 009 966

Help the Aged care fees advice 0500 767 476

Answer 4

There is a certain period of time that must lapse (6 or 7 years I think) after the sale of the house to you in order for the house to be safe from the thieving council. I'm afraid it may be too late for you, perhaps talk to a solicitor.

I agree that it is disgusting that people who have served this country both in War and by working hard instead of scrounging (and paying taxes which should cover this when it's needed!) are treated in this way. Seeing as he was in Army how about talking to the British Legion or the ex-servicemans association for the Army? They may be able to give you advice.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person grateful to those who have fought for us!

Answer 5

Yes and no. A lot of people are signing their house over to their kids in anticipation of this situation... so there is a way of checking how recently it was done - I'm not sure of the limit.

It's better if he just signs it over as a "gift", or because he "can't afford it any more" rather than selling it, because otherwise he would have to account for the cash made on the sale of the house.

If you kids are are married, there may be some advantage to signing the house over to one of your spouses with a different surname, then buying the house back - that way it becomes harder to trace the person with the different surname.

Go see a financial advisor for the best way - but it can be done. Unfortunately, the time thing is going to cause problems... My gran signed her house over to her three daughters years ago for this very reason.

Also, you will need to make sure his bank account remains under a certain ammount (I don't know what it is). Again, he can give his cash away to family members to achieve this - so long as you can all be trusted, of course.

Answer 6

From my experience in the US ... the house and any other assets could have been put into a revocable trust. You also could have bought long term care insurance. However all this needed to be done at least 2 years ago. Now it is too late. Unfortunately, he probably was too lucid then to give up that much control over his life if he was anything like my mom was.

And I know from the experience with my dad that toughing it out for the next 2 years would be beyond your family's breaking point.

Answer 7

As long as he lives for 7 years after you do that otherwise it can be seen as a tax dodge etc and you get charged anyway. Also if he has advanced Alzheimers who is going to give him the constant care that he needs anyway; are you going to take turns round the clock with him? I have worked with sufferers and it becomes very difficult toward the end. I agree that he should not have to pay for care (I assume you live in England) but if the house does have to be sold you should make sure that social services do not dip into the portion that he is legally entitled to keep anyway. If he should die before their share is eaten up you should be certain that what is left comes to you and your siblings. Also, if he does have to go into care , to ensure that he does get the best of care, i suggest you and your siblings drop in frequently, never at the same time of daytwice, without warning and give strict instructions that he is not to be got up before what is his usual time now. (Sorry but I did say I have worked with.....). Apart from that I suggest you go to the CAB or contact the Alzheimer's society - both are very good with support on this kind of issue and support him at home for as long as possible.

Answer 8

What you could do is go ahead with your plan, i.e. transfer of the house to the three of you at a nominal value and in consideration of the transfer of the house the three of you could enter into an undertaking to pay any care home fees incurred for three years. This undertaking would prevent the local authority from being able to put a charge on the house.
Have you thought about simply taking it in turns to care for him at home, possibly with paid help? That's the other way round it!

Answer 9

You don't say where you Dad lives so the laws could be different.

When my mother-in-law's Alzheimer demanded she go into nursing care, the health systems & assistance programs were allowed to take over every asset she had Except her home to cover the cost of her care.

Once all of her personal funds were depleted the goverment picked up her tab for nursing care until her death. At that time the family sold her home to cover her final expenses.

I am sorry that you and your sibling are going through this. Good luck and God Bless.

Answer 10

Possibly.

The council can look at dispositions like this, and will look to see what's behind them. If you have done it in order to get out of care home fees, then they will treat him as though he still owns the property.

However, when I was at law school (2-3 years ago) we were taught that if you do it with the intention of avoiding inheritance tax, then, even if the scheme does not work for inheritance tax purposes, you may not be caught by the council.

If you want to do it, do it as quick as poss, as they will look at (among other things) how long ago the disposition was made when deciding whether it was done to avoid care home fees or not.