instead of power running through my white wire, i have it running through my ground... does anyone know why?

Question

I'm re-doing my entire bathroom in my old house and the wiring is really screwy. I have power going through my ground and my hot... from what i understand this isn't very safe. I can't figure out why it's like this or how i can make the ground just be a ground and have power going through my black and white wires. thanks!

Answer 1

This is going to be a bit long, but for a reason. There is theory and there is practice. They don't always coincide 100%. The more you know about this, the better able you will be to do it the best way. As you wrote, this is a safety issue so you want to do it right.

The rules can be a little confusing. One reason they are is because the standard has been set so that everyone is on the same page. This reduces the risk that mistakes will be made. In some respects, those rules don't make as much theoretical sense as they should. In other respects, they make a lot of sense.

The black is considered the hot wire. Actually, there is no polarity with A/C, but we call it that because there is voltage between it and the white, neutral wire. There is also the same voltage between the black and either the green or bare wire or ground. That is because the neutral and the ground are exactly the same inside the breaker box.

In the appliance that is plugged in, the black is hot, the white is the other side, i.e. neutral, and the green is ground. In this case, the term appliance is anything that uses the electricity, even something like a light bulb. The green, i.e. ground, should be physically attached to the metal frame of the appliance, if there is one. That way, the appliance is always grounded.

If there should be a malfunction, anywhere in the circuit of the house or the appliance, the frame of the appliance can never be "hot." If that malfunction would have caused it to be hot, the fact that it is grounded causes the circuit breaker to trip off. You are now protected from certain common electrical malfunctions.

This is obviously a great safety feature. The hot and neutral carry the electrical load and the ground protects you.

Since the neutral and ground are actually connected to the same place in the breaker box, there is full voltage from the hot to the ground. The only reason that is unsafe to use is that the ground, by definition is reserved for connecting to the frame of the appliance. If you use the ground instead of the neutral, there is some chance that the safety function will be less.

As you have seen, it will work, but it is not a good idea, just for safety. Have you measured the voltage from black to white and it is zero? I assume so because you imply that there is not.

That means that there is a white wire that is disconnected somewhere between the breaker box and the bathroom. You need to trace the wires from the breaker box to the bathroom. At any point that you can get access to the bare wires, you can measure the voltage to see where it stops being correct. Unfortunately, there are often no junction boxes where you can do this.

Sometimes that plan is not practical. Often, it is not possible to see where the wires go. In that case, your best bet will be to abandon the current wires and run new ones. If you don't have a ceiling in the basement, that is usually not too difficult.

I'm surprise that there is a ground wire in an old house. Many years ago, they used to not run anything except a hot and a neutral. Are you sure there are black, white, and green or bare in the cable? When was the house built? Was the electric system upgraded since then?

You seem to know a bit about what you are doing so please don't be offended by my asking if you plan to use GFI in the bathroom. I think you already know it is important and it is manditory but others reading this might not know.

The symtoms are such that it cannot possibly be related to a breaker. It might be a bad white, neutral, wire in the breaker box, but it can not be a defective breaker.

P.S. after reading some of the other replys: a 40 year old house would not normally need to have the wires replaced. Even a 70 year old one would not need that. An added ground, yes, complete replacement, not typical.

MarkLight had some good points, BUT the white does indeed carry power, it takes two conductors. Even though there is no voltage from the neutral to ground, the neutral still carries the power.

How do you know the power is going through the ground? I took your statement at face value, but another reply questioned it. I should also have.

Have you measured all the voltages? If so, post them here, please.

The hot (black) wire can not possibly have worn through and is touching the ground. That would immediately blow the breaker and you would not be able to reset it.

It is also NOT a short circuit. All electrical problems are not short circuits. That is the term for one very specific problem, it is not a genertic term.

In the US, there are typically two black wires and one bare wire coming from the pole transformer. If you are running 220v inside the house, you use red and black for the hot, but the electric company just uses both black.

Bottom line is that you are getting a lot of generic answers and speculation because we need more information. If you are happy with guesses, then that is your choice. If you want a good answer, you need to add more information.

Answer 2

The conventional colors used by electricians are black for the hot conductor, white for the neutral (or return) conductor, and either a bare wire or green for the ground. The neutral conductors and the ground conductors are all tied together at a block in your breaker panel, and are connected to an earth ground which may be a ground rod or a connection to a cold water pipe.

That being said, it takes two conductors for electricity to flow. For 120V power, these are the black wires and the white wires. The white wires, although power flows through them, are always at the same potential as your earth ground, and so you won't get a shock from them. The black wires alternate between about plus 170 volts and minus 170 volts with a 60 Hz sinusoidal waveform. (120 volts is the rms or root-mean-square average value of a 170 volt peak sinusoid.)

The ground wire is for safety purposes. You should never have current flowing through it except for a fault condition. If you had a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter on this branch circuit, the current in the ground conductor would always cause the GFCI to trip.

I don't know how power could be going through your ground wire unless it was wired that way. That is wrong and should be corrected. Beside the obvious problems, the ground conductor is usually one size smaller and has a lower ampere rating. A 20 amp circuit requires 12 gauge copper wire, but the 14 gauge ground wire that goes with 12 gauge conductors in Romex is rated for only 15 amps. Besides being a safety issue, you could conceivably have an overheating wire.

If you are not confident about doing this job yourself, you should get an electrician.

Answer 3

If I am reading this correctly you are saying that you do not get power between the white(line neutral) and black but you are getting power between the black and ground.

If that is correct you need to trace the wires back to the breaker box and find where you have lost the white wire. The white wire may have broken off right at the ground buss or the screw may be loose. If the wire is a strait run directly to the bathroom check inside the first connection to that line and the next and the next until you have checked and hopefully found the break in the chain.

I was not going to but after reading another responder's rendition on how hot, line neutral and ground are derived I have decided to fill you in. Outside there is a step up transformer from the power company that supplies the power to your home. The two ends of the secondary(output) coil of the transformer should read somewhere around 240 V.. Let's call one red and the other one black. There is another connection to that coil which is a center tap or a connection in the exact center of the secondary coil. This is known as line neutral. It is neither red nor black but neutral to both and you can read120V.(half of the 240V.) to either the red or the black. The ground is also connected to this terminal and a ground wire goes to a ground rod at the site of the transformer be it on a pole or on the ground or under ground. The supply line that goes from this transformer to your meter consists of two insulated wires ("red" and "black") and a bare braided wire(line neutral) which is also joined by a ground wire going to a ground rod.

Answer 4

with out trying to sound insulting, i think you know just enough to be dangerous. how have you determined that the power is running through the ground? why do you think it should run through the white? when wiring is such that it's "screwy" most people would question what they think they know. now, if you're still listening to me and haven't blown this off, the reason i have said this is because if you mess up, somebody could get killed. i think that you know enough to do the wiring if you ran it from the start. but you are having problems because you can't see what has been done where you can't see. without getting into a lot of telling you how to test the wiring like an electrician would, try this; get one of those plug in circuit testers that you plug into an outlet to see if it is wired correctly. it's like a little 2-3 wire adaptor for an extention cord with lights on it. next install an outlet to the power supply wires to your bathroom and plug it in. now read the code that the lights indicate, that will tell you if the supply is wired correct or not. if it isn't correct, you could be testing a runner and not the supply. that is what i think is going on, on you. it sounds like you are working with a runner to a switch or light fixture and not a supply. of course in an old house anything is possible, and someone before you could have messed the wiring up. when i did the bathroom over in my old house, i ran the wiring new from the panel to the bathroom. and when i got it there the first thing that it goes to is the gfic outlet, then to the light switch and fan. i assume you pulled a permit for this and the building inspector will be checking it out for you, right? it's a good idea, because if anything should go wrong or if you have a fire your insurance might not pay. just food for thought, my old lady works for an insurance company. good luck and if you are not posititive that you have it done right, call an electrician.

Answer 5

White Wire Ground

Answer 6

In Canada the power wire is normally black, (or red ) the common wire is white and should not carry power because itis actually connected to ground itself. The ground is either green/yellow or bare copper. That makes 2 redundant ways to prevent electrocution by accident.


you may have something plugged in with an internal short being shunted to ground.

One by one unplug things until the current goes away. You then service the appliance as required.

If that does not do it, inspect the wiring of each plug and fixture to see if they are properly wired.

Duplex plugs are marked on the back side for the wire color to go in to each bit.
You will see a green (For Ground) connector (for the green/yellow or bare copper wire.)
Note it is not in the black plastic bit, but just outside. It may or not have a wire connected to it.
If not wired, the entire assembly is grounded to the mounting box when it is screwed on. Looking to the back of the wall mounting to see if the ground - bare copper - on the supply wire is attached to the box at the back. If it is, then the duplex connects to ground when it is screwed in to the mounting box through the screws and the box itself.

The white wire goes to the chromed connector, (chrome for White)

The power goes dark metallic or copper looking one.
Color coding all the way.

Meanwhile back at the panel make sure that all the white wires go to the ground strips.

Only colored black or red wire comes from the breakers.
As well all the bare copper must go to the ground.

Only work on the panel with the power off and a flashlight to illuminate. Even then I use a meter to be sure the power is really off before starting work on every circuit, and the panel itself.

If none of this corrects the problem, you have to begin tracking down all the junction boxes and verifying they are properly connected and that might be a problem. Even though it is code for J boxes to always be accessible (For this very reason) many are hidden for various dumb reasons.

Answer 7

I would test that Fuse/Breaker at at the box to make certain the entire structure is not affected in the same way. Then it is a chore of testing every J box to the room that you are suspect of. Your entire house may have an Active Ground, it happens. The task at hand now is to figure out which rooms and other J boxes have this same Configuration and if a True Ground is is the solution.
I have no idea what you are using to test it with, or no idea what the readings on your Multi-Tester are. I am happy to see that someone is useing some proper tools and common sense.
My house is now 38 years old and I am purchaseing all new wiring to run in it. Bought the spools of wire 5 years ago, went to get another roll last week and EEEP!
If the Ground is faulty, I would suggest make a new ground , connect it to every existing wire that is Ground, and continue from there.

Answer 8

make sure the white and ground wires are connected to the terminal bar in your electrical panel. Only the black should be connected the breaker or fuse. If the electrical panel is wired correctly, the ground wire has been mistakenly connected to the hot or black wire somewhere between the electrical panel and the bathroom. Most likely in an outlet box or junction box. It is possible that the ground wire has worn through the insulation on a hot wire someplace and is now in contact with the hot wire. I would start by opening up any outlet or junction boxes in the bathroom circuit and check for any mis-wired connections or worn through insulation on the hot wire. Good luck

Answer 9

Your white is the ground. Actually, white and copper wire have same ground connection in master panel. Black wire goes to the circuit breaker. You can test this with regular simple light tester The light shouldnt come on going between white and copper ground wire in the bath room. If it does, somewhere in the line its been switched around.

Answer 10

agh agh the nightmares of an old house. but you are talking about electrical here. not safe to be messing around with if you do not no what you are doing. get a electrician in. its not worth your life. sorry i could not be of any help but you do have a wiring nightmare on your hands and it is definatly not safe.