If Liberalism is so bad, why aren't hordes of Scandinavians beating down our doors?

Question

I have a friend in Sweden. He pays 91% in taxes. Of course he'd like to keep more.

But then he says "my wife takes some college classes at night, and I never worry about her taking the trolley home at night."

I'm sorry,that should be 71%, but I couldn't figure out the edit.


I have a friend in Sweden. He pays 91% in taxes. Of course he'd like to keep more.

But then he says "my wife takes some college classes at night, and I never worry about her taking the trolley home at night."

Answer 1

Great question! Ivan wrote a brilliant post about taxes in Sweden; and yes, the flatbread :-) . He is absolutely right (except that it's still a 40 hours working week), so I, a Swede,have nothing to add there. I'd love to see a comparison between countries where you could see how much a household paid in taxes + education + health care + dental care + health insurances + child care + senior care in different countries. My guess is that differences would level out a lot in such comparisons. The differences are in how the spending is distributed. There are fewer rich and fewer poor in a country like Sweden.

I just really wanted to add a few words about the political situation in Sweden, since so many seem to believe that it is a kind of red-hot socialist paradise/hell (make your choice):
Sweden is a stable democracy, with elections every fourth year. The present government is a conservative/liberal coalition. The Conservative Party is the largest party in Sweden, and the Prime Minister is conservative. "Liberals" in Sweden are on the right-to-middle wing on the political spectrum, and the second most conservative party. In the coalition government there are also a Christian Democrat party and a "Center" party.

The opposition parties are: the Social Democrats, Sweden's second largest party, which is middle-to-left on the political spectrum; much more middle than left, I'd say. The socialist party (also a democratic party) is very small, like the environmentalists.
However, an American might find it hard to understand the differences between many of the parties. They all seem to be pretty much in the middle. Swedish conservatives may have much more in common with U.S. liberals than with U.S. conservatives on most issues.

And why we stay in Sweden... well, most people prefer to live in their own country unless they are forced to leave by war, poverty or persecution. And after all - Sweden ranks
- 3rd in the world in a happiness survey (after Iceland and the Netherlands)
- 5th in the world according to Economist Magazine's Quality-of-Life 2005 index
- One of the highest average life expectancies in the world (over 80)
- The lowest percentage of children living in poverty.

But OK, if you had to select another country than your own, and the choice was free, why not match your own preferences and values with the country's special strength? In a 2006 International.living.com Quality-of-life comparison between 194 countries (where France tops the list and Iraq takes the bottom position) Sweden ranks lower than the U.S. in cost of living, economy, infrastructure and climate. But we rank higher than the U.S. in leisure and culture, environment, freedom and health. - However, both the U.S. and Sweden are of course good countries to live in, and I'd say that it's not the top positions in indexes like these that should gain our attention. It's the bottom positions. And the terrible gap between the top and bottom countries.

Answer 2

91% is not true. The income tax in Sweden is a two-step progressive tax. The municipal tax is 30% with an addition of 20-25% when your income exceeds ~$50,000. That may seem high for a US citizen, until you remember that the education and healthcare systems are free. If you compare the standard of living of the middle class, the difference is really not that big. If you are working class, you do much better in Sweden.

So why aren't Scandinavians beating down the doors of the US? I think the answer is that most Scandinavians believe that money is not everything. They have 6 weeks of vacation and 37 hours working week. As you mentioned, I don't think the US crime rates attract people to move to the US either. Finally, there are huge transaction costs by moving to the US and you are moving away from family, friends and have to eat hamburgers and turkey clubs instead of pickled herring and flatbread.

Answer 3

It's not just about taxes. Scandinavians also have a culture in which it's the social norm to be basically the same as you neighbor. Flaunting any excess of anything is considered not in good taste. That being said the population there is also stable. If there we an influx of immigrants who weren' working they would problems after awhile. Europe is experiencing that now.
People also don't like to leave their home country unless things are really bad there.
Liberalism is bad because it takes responsibility away from the individual and gives it to the government. It removes the incentive to make yourself better since you are penalized (taxed) for improving your life.

Answer 4

Hey, some people have had to pay more than 100% in Sweden! I guess it's too warm here for most of them. But I have a nephew who married a Swede and her brother lives here now too.

Answer 5

Where did you get your statistics from? There is no country on earth that forces it's citizens to pay 91% in taxes.

Answer 6

91% in taxes. Why work? Seriously! If I worked 40 hours, and turned over 36 hours worth of pay over to the government, I'd just quit and stay home.

Answer 7

I had a co-worker who was FROM Sweden. And he was a conservative. If he were to became a U.S. citizen, he'd vote Republican. Because the Democrats here in the U.S. remind him of the socialists in his homeland. Johann didn't like the way his government was run there.

Answer 8

Only FOX news says it is bad over there....

Answer 9

you got that right. by not working i could probably get on assistance somewhere.

i ain't working like a dog for nobody else.

Answer 10

Scandinavians are not liberals, they are Socialists, that is why they are not beating down our doors!!!!!!!!!!