How many civil liberties and freedoms are we going to give up?

Question

Is it just me or is this feeling less and less like "the land of the free"? Now Bush just signed a bill that will allow for govenment agents to open our mail (first class) while in possesion of the USPS. Before that was the wire tapping. Oh and don't let me forget to mention if you attend protests against the current government you are investigated. So how much is too much?

Answer 1

Bush has taken away ZERO freedoms from Americans.

He has simply taken away freedoms from the evil, murderous islamofacists that want to kill us all, regardless of political preference

Bush is fighting against terrorism, something many liberals think is a bad idea.

I'm glad Reps controlled the gov't during and after 9/11, otherwise more and more would have come, with no consequences

Answer 2

I did not like Bush' comments regarding the provisions in the new postal act. This is not because your mail can be opened. The fact is that your mail could always be opened under Title 39. What I do not like is that they are now claiming they can do it without seeking a search warrant. This is indeed a violation of your rights should it occur. I can understand the administration's need to move quickly in the case of wiretapping, but mail is physical. There is no reason to open it without search warrant. It can be quarantined temporarily while a search warrant is sought.

I am not against Domestic Surveillance (wiretapping) because there are standards in place which require a warrant be issued through the FISA system in a timely manner. This in effect preserves the checks and balances.

As for investigating protesters, there is nothing new in this and almost every administration has used this technique for as long as I can remember. Eisenhower investigated potential communists, Kennedy investigated Civil Rights workers and Nixon antiwar protesters. Anyone who threatens the President has always been investigated. The point here is that an investigation does not violate your rights unless it involves illegal search and seizure, or some unlawful detention.

kendell c: Just a point of contention. There is no right to privacy expressed in the Constitution. There is a protection against unreasonable search and seizure. The right to privacy is implied, but never stated. I do agree though that we should be free from unnecessary government intrusion into our lives as this was indeed the Framers intent.

THORGIRLSWAR!: I am a conservative. I do believe in the right and need for government to collect intelligence in order to protect the people from threats, but frankly the nothing to hide argument has gotten old for me. I have nothing to hide and I don't really care if the government follows me, listens to me, or opens my mail for that matter. However, there must be checks and balances on power. History has proved this fact time and again. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and once freedom is lost it is very hard to regain. Maybe you don't believe Mr. Bush wouldn't misuse this type of power, but what about the next administration, or the one after that. We cannot trade essential liberty for security or we will lose both. Franklin was indeed correct in this belief and we should all take it to heart.

Answer 3

Ben Franklin said that any man willing to give up liberty for security deserves neither. Our forefathers fought and died for liberty and freedom. They fought against an oppressive and intrusive government. Our constitution guarantees us a right to privacy a right to be secure in our person and home. There are other ways to fight terrorism without tapping some 83 yr old grandmother's phone. If you think those "listening" to your conversations, reading your mail, and going through your bank statement will use discretion and restraint and will be responsible with your most personal secrets then you are a fool. They are government workers. Some make $30k per year, some have their own agenda and some are carrying out the agenda of higher powers that only have their own best interests in mind.

Answer 4

We will give up as many rights as Republicans can scare us into believing are necessary to "protect" our freedom.

A lot of people have no problem with this invasion of privacy, claiming they have nothing to hide. Don't be so sure.

A couple years ago FBi director Mueller said that the greatest threat to Americans are animal rights activists. (This was after 9=11 when supposedly the FBI was looking for Muslim terrorists).

Now, lets say someone you know is an animal rights activist, but you don't know what they really do. This friend has been identified as a terrorist. And you call them.

Guess what. You just contacted a known terrorist. And now they investigate you.

Don't be so sure you have nothing to hide.

When Republicans are in power, everyone is suspect.

Answer 5

Actually, the government has always had that right, and the bill Bush signed did nothing more than reinterpret the same law a little more liberally to assist in law enforcement.

Be careful what you read. Journalists often lie to sell papers.

For example, USA Today is now famous for their NSA wiretapping stories. Not only does the NSA never perform wiretapping (this job belongs to the FBI and CIA by executive order and the NSA is prohibited, even with a warrant), the newspaper blamed Bush when it was actually Bill Clinton who signed into law the Digital Communications and Telephony Act which ordered phone companies to make phone records available in a specific format, again for law enforcement. I believe the act also prohibits cell phone companies from incripting their signals. USA Today got the entire story wrong from beginning to end. It was a complete fabrication!

(I know, having worked with NSA equipment, what it can and can't do...)

Answer 6

You should really read these things for yourself before you regurgatate what the media and Democrats tell you. we are at war and he does not have a bunch of people on phones 24 hours a day listening to you call your friend and chat about whatever. What they are doing is checking PHONE RECORDS and when they see a pattern of overseas calls that they think from their training and experience are suspisous rather then having to go to a judge and get permission to check these calls and waste valuable time they monitor these types of calls in hopes of catching a plot or maybe a transaction to send money to terrorist orginizations. Same with your mail I don't know about you but I am not worried mine will be opened if it's from my brother in CA. and even if they read it they would be bored silly reading about what his 3 year old has been up to. don't be so paranoid unless you are in a sleeper cell working of Osama you won't be going to jail for phone calls or letters. But some of the stuff happening does scare me like the government telling me what I can eat or can't eat. Trying to be our "daddy" for our own good now that is scarey!

Answer 7

It is no different from when the USA went to war in 1917.

An excerpt from “War Is A Racket” by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient: Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC:

“Looking back, Woodrow Wilson was re-elected president in 1916 on a platform that he had "kept us out of war" and on the implied promise that he would "keep us out of war." Yet, five months later he asked Congress to declare war on Germany.

In that five-month interval the people had not been asked whether they had changed their minds. The 4,000,000 young men who put on uniforms and marched or sailed away were not asked whether they wanted to go forth to suffer and die.

Then what caused our government to change its mind so suddenly?

Money.

An allied commission, it may be recalled, came over shortly before the war declaration and called on the President. The President summoned a group of advisers. The head of the commission spoke. Stripped of its diplomatic language, this is what he told the President and his group:


"There is no use kidding ourselves any longer. The cause of the allies is lost. We now owe you (American bankers, American munitions makers, American manufacturers, American speculators, American exporters) five or six billion dollars.

If we lose (and without the help of the United States we must lose) we, England, France and Italy, cannot pay back this money...and Germany won't.

So..."

When the USA did enter the war, suddenly laws were passed equating the expression of antiwar sentiments with espionage. Those who denounced war could be sentenced to as much as 25 years in prison yet 142 were sentenced to life and 17 were sentenced to death. Many others were badly beaten and abused in prison. The government even allowed gangs to beat and even tar and feather war resistors and forced them to kiss the flag.

The National Security Administration has also recently engaged in a massive domestic spying campaign, contrary to law and with little oversight.

Answer 8

Ill start with my favorite quote with own twist.

" Anyone that sacrifices essential liberty for temporary security deserves neither and eventually loses both"
Ben Franklin

The Bill of Rights is Gone. Ill go in order.

1. Free Speech Zones? WTF
2. Tons of Gun Laws
3. They haven't forced us to quarter soilders yet. +1
4. NSA illegal wire taps
5. You can't plead the 5th if you don't have a trial.
6.Speedy Trial? Lucky to get a trial now.
7. If its more than 20 bucks, you still get a trial. +1
8. I think we have many years of cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
9. TONS of deny or disparaged rights.
10. The power is DEF. not with the people, like it should be.

YAYAYAY we now have 2/10 of the Bill of rights. 1/5 Freedom.The Military Commissions act effectively destroyed it. Google it.

Habeus Corpus is Gone.

America Died in 2006.

Answer 9

Nobody gives a rats patoot about your mail or your conversations. The same question came up when Police wanted cars in the 1920's the public screamed that it was an unfair advantage. When you have nothing to hide you are free.

Answer 10

I'm with you! I don't mind if my mail is checked or my telephone is tapped, but for Pete's sake, get a warrant! It's not that big a deal. What's Bush trying to pull?

Answer 11

George Orwell 1984 in motion,"Big Brother is Watching"