DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT THE ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS WERE NOT BLACK? A response to shoveling_ferret?

Question

I am not an egyptologist and I am not an archaeologist, but I do know what makes sense and what does not. I do know for a fact that this question as to racial identity of the Egyptians has been in dispute for some time now. The reason I say now is because of the fact that before 1974, it was not a problem. The fact of the matter is that in 1974 there was a UNESCO conference where all of the noted egyptologists were invited to put to rest the racial and historical background of the Egyptians. The conference was very clear and the conclusion was that the Egyptians were African. For further understanding "black African". Now at this conference Cheikh Anta Diop and Theophile Obenga put together alot of evidence to prove that the original Egyptians were black Africans. There work was presented and none of there arguments or proofs were disputed by actual proof. In fact those two were the only ones to bring so much evidence. Furthermore they dominated the conference and put a lot of misconceptions to rest. This is for "shoveling" I understand your view now is that the Egyptians were a mixed race and you say that to us (non-egyptologists) on this online forum, but were you at the conference and were you one of the egyptologists invited? Can you dispute any arguments that Obenga and the late great Diop made with proof? I am just another person that wants this bullshit to turn to evidence. That is all you are doing "shoveling" bullshit with no proof. I do not like people like you that claim something and that we should take your word based on what you say because you are an egyptologist. Show me some proof!!!!!!..........................We all know that Diop is dead but Obenga is still alive and I have met the brother. If you have any questions that disputes Diop and OBenga bring it to him. Do not try to shovel your crap to us when your own brethren egyptologist sat there stunned and impressed with the Diop and Obenga and could not even challenge their proof. I have heard Hawass' arguments and all he has are words. The fact of the matter is that the question is moot. THE EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK AFRICANS.


IN THE PROPAGANDA WAR AGAINST BLACK ACHIEVEMENT IN THE WORLD, CLEAR EVIDENCE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE ENOUGH. AMERICAN MASS MEDIA SEEM TO PRACTICE WHAT ADOLF HITLER PERFECTED SAY SOMETHING LOUD ENOUGH AND LONG ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE BOUND TO BELIEVE IT.

Answer 1

Some of the ancient Egyptians were caucasian (along the lines of Middle Easterners), and some were black.
Look at the ancient art. That's all the proof you really need.

It doesn't have anything to do with racism, or with saying black people haven't achieved anything important--it's just the way it is.

I don't know why you're so angry, but maybe you should direct it at the specific person who pissed you off instead of ranting about it in the questions forum. Sorry.

Answer 2

What Diop and Obenga were trying to prove was not so much that the Egyptians were black, per se, but that they were African, i.e., not white, a myth that had persisted for a long time, and to a lesser extent still does. They argued that it was Africa that was the cradle of civilization. But "Africans," then as now, comprised a number of different "races," if that word really has any meaning.

Yes, Diop, in particular, did argue that ancient Egypt had been a Black African culture, but that is not a view held by the majority of historians and archeologists. It has nothing to do with anti-Black racisim and everything to do with the fact that the Egyptians themselves generally did not depict themselves as black. I say "generally" because there certainly were some black Egyptians, and even some black Pharaohs, during a period when Egypt was ruled by the Nubians, roughly during the mid-First Millenium, BC.

There were magnificent empires in the sub-Saharan, i.e., black, part of Africa. Besides the Nubian Empire already mentioned, there was the Munhumutapa Empire, of which Great Zimbabwe is a relic, as well as the Ghana, Mali, and Songhai Empires, of which the ancient commercial and cultural city of Timbuktu was a key part. The fact that much of this greatness has not been well-publicized is no excuse for trying to assert a Black African origin for a culture, ancient Egypt, that is generally, and clearly, not of such origin.

The "mass media," which at best you contemptuously dismiss, and at worst accuse of active racism, are only reporting what is the consensus of academic opinion. If the proof for a "blacker" ancient Eqypt were truly there, as you insist, there would be no conceivable reason for the academic community to deny it. Unless, that is, you are accusing all of them of being racist, too.

By the way, I find that people who write using a lot of capital letters are more concerned with ideology than truth. You present no facts or arguments in your screed, only assertions. One can almost hear you screaming at your monitor as you write, and just like out in the non-digital world, reason is a lot more convincing than rant.

Answer 3

This has nothing to do with "Black achievement". There are enough paintings, sculptures and mummies (genetic material) to be able to say that the majority of ancient egyptians were not black. There is also plenty of evidence to show that there were many black people living in Egypt at that time- also Europeans, Arabs, Asians, etc. Some were traders, some were slaves, some were mercenaries, some were high officials in the Pharaoh's household - and none of these cathegories was in any way related to racial origin

Egypt at that time was the centre of the cultural world and a superpower. It waged war against all it's neighbours (hence the slaves) as far as today's Iran, Turkey, Sudan and Libya. We know for certain that Egyptian sailors circumnavigated the African continent and traded with India and China. Again, none of these achievements are in any way race related.

There were many black tribes living in North Africa. We know for certain that black tribes lived in today's Libya and Tunisia (reported by Roman historians- eg Carthage's allied cavalry was mostly black). They were exterminated during the muslim invasion around 850 AD

Answer 4

The Egyptians certainly didn't think of themselves as black - in their paintings they clearly distinguish themselves from the darker Nubians or Kushites. They called the area "vile Kush" and said the inhabitants had buttocks for souls!
These days the Copts or Egyptian Christians are the best representative of the ancient population. An example is the former UN Secretary-General Boutros Ghali. Have a look at a picture of him. Is he black?
Herodotus lived in the 5th century BC, not the 4th, and the quotation doesn't seem to be in my copy. The Old Testament singled out the Ethiopian, not the Egyptian, as having a different skin colour.

Answer 5

I sympathize with your quest but they are all dead. However there was a country beneath Egypt named Nubia, and they had kings too and some pyramids, and the ones you are talking about were black but anthropology found the Nubian man to black and white. Some Egyptians were black but not all and yet they were all in that region white as well mixed and then just white. There is factual evidence of this from the sarcophogi that was uncovered in tombs. For instance Cleopatra was not black at all she was a Mesopotamian and Greek. A little brown skin which made her of yellow race as well. Nefertiti was not Black either she was brown skin, but mixed. There were 12 tribes and black was only one of the mixtures. East Indians have recently returned to Israel to find that they are hebrew. There was Ishmael and Isaac, and I am not getting biblical, this is genetics, and the formula's and mixtures make it so today we really know that it all does not matter. All that matters is what we can discover from all these studies to cure disease in us all God willing and that is all there is to that subject of race.

Answer 6

The earliest description we have is from the Greek historian Herodotus in the 4th century BC. He says of Egyptians "they have black skins and curly hair" . By that time Egypt had been invaded many times so there had to be many other groups also living there, so it is probably a generalization about the majority. They were about to be conquered by Alexander and become part of the Hellenistic world with a large influx of Greeks and later Romans.. The absence of information about race in the early writings show that the concerns about skin color is relatively new in human history.
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/notes/herod.htm

Answer 7

Blah blah blah, the ancient Egyptian looked pretty much like modern Egyptians do. There were no Black Pharaohs, Cleopatra The 7th was NOT black(she was Macedonian Greek) this is not about hiding Black achievement, this is about a small group of racists trying to convince everyone that the "white man" has been "holding the black man down" for over 3000 years. Which brings up the questions..if it IS actually the "white man" "holding the black man down", and it has been going on for 3000 years, what does that say about the "black man"? Does it mean that he is stupid? Does that mean he is weak? Why has the whole world (including Egyptian archaeologists) been wrong for 3000 years? Why not celebrate real Black achievement, and real black history and not make up histories to try to prove some ridiculous racist plot?

Answer 8

They certainly were black.The ancient Egyptians were very proud of their color and and left no doubt about what that color was on the walls of their buildings.Civilization came down the Nile from Africa and the color presented on the walls is t clearly African.The reason why Egyptians are not black now is record in ancient Greek history.The dynasty was weak and was unable to withstand a succession of invaders and was eventually conquered by the Greeks .The ancient Greeks had a saying that you can hurl at those who argue with you and that saying was "All good things come out of Africa"

Answer 9

What are you talking about or try to say?.
Egypt is located in north Africa, a lot of the Egyptian today still resemble the drawing in the ancient tombs, they do not have the African features if you mean black African, they are like the general population of north Africa, where the skin color tone is lighter than central Africa and darker than white Europe, something in between.

Answer 10

Read "Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History"
by Mary R Lefkowitz - 1996