Why does the Roman numeral 4 appear as IIII and not IV on a traditional timepiece (clock or watch) ?

Question

On the dial of a timepiece, the Roman numeral 4 traditionally appears as IIII and not IV. Where did this tradition originate?

Answer 1

See the exact answer given on YAHOO ANSWERS to this identical question ...

Answer 2

Well, the Romans counted on their fingers! I or II or III are different numbers of fingers held up. So what are five fingers? A whole hand, of course! If you look at a right (see right), you can see that the thumb and little finger make a V, and it's a lot easier than to draw the whole hand. Perhaps the hand can also explain why the number 4 is written as IV. It is a hand with the thumb turned down. This is a lot easier to do than turning down a couple of fingers, so it could be that's why we only subtract one, not two or three.

Ten fingers are both hands, and X is two V's (with one upside down).

The Romans spoke a language called Latin, and the Latin for hundred is Centum. So C stands for hundred.
What do these words mean? Century - Centurion - Centimetre - Cent - Centipede

The Latin for thousand is Mille. So M stands for thousand.
What do these words mean? Millennium - Millimetre - Millipede

Now for fifty. Fifty is half of a hundred, so the Romans took the symbol for hundred, C, and cut it in half. This makes an L, which became fifty.
Five hundred is half of a thousand, so the Romans took the symbol for thousand, M, and cut it in half the other way. This makes a (sort of) D, which became five hundred.

One place where you often see Roman numbers is on a clock face. The hours are marked as I to XII. However, there is something odd about these Roman numbers. If you look at four, it is IIII instead of IV. I think that this is because half of the numbers are upside down, since they follow the edge of the clock face round. You can get IV and VI muddled up when they're the right way up. It is even worse when they're upside down! IX and XI are not such a problem, since they are more or less the right way up. In fact, the Romans never had clocks like this, since they had not been invented.
You can guess for yourself why the clock is showing the time "ten to three" (clue - I live in Cambridge, UK, near Grantchester).

This is the accepted modern way to count with Roman numbers. The Romans themselves were not so fussy. There is a Roman tombstone in York, England, of Lucius Duccius Rufinius, who was the standard bearer of the VIIII legion (9th), and was XXIIX years old (or 28!)

At the top of this page, when using the convertor, I tell you to type a number in which is less than 4000. Why? When we use Roman numbers today, we don't use them for big numbers, so you never see the Roman number for 5000 (and if you don't have that, then you can't write 4000). The Romans agreed on symbols for 1, 5, 10, 50, 100, 500, and 1000, but there were different symbols for 5000 and also for the bigger numbers. Here is one way the Romans wrote big numbers.

Answer 3

Iiii Vs Iv

Answer 4

There are many reasons that have been proposed. I highly recommend the two web sites I list in sources ... they discuss this issue very nicely.

Example theories:
- IV is the first two letters of the pagan god IVPITER (Jupiter), which did not sit well with the church. IV in fact is a more recent invention.
- The four characters IIII form a visual symmetry with the four characters in VIII on the opposite side of the clock.
- It was more economical with casting bronze to have the same number of V's in the clock as X's. Using IIII means you are using four V's and four X's. Using IV means you are using five V's, which requires you to make an extra casting.
- This divides the clockface up into three regions ... the first four numbers use only I's, the the next four numbers are the only ones using V's, and that last four numbers are the only ones using X's.

Answer 5

Typically it appears as IIII on a fake timepiece and IV on a real one

Answer 6

The front facade wall of the New York City Public Library Building at 5th ave. in Manhattan has engraved in the concrete the date of construction of said building expressed in roman numerals , and the number 4 as in llll ....( not the correct IV).....believe it or not !

Answer 7

Aesthetics. And for some reason people just get confused

Answer 8

both are valid......romans numerals.....