So I was watching cops the other day, in this episode the cops set up a sting with a bicycle........?

Question

Basically they leave the bike unattended in a street corner in an inner city neighborhood, and wait for somebody to steal it, they then pop out of their cars and hiding spots with the usual "PUT YOUR HANDS UP, GET DOWN ON THE GROUND!!" Yata Yata...

It was a nice bike as you an imagine, it didn't take long before it was stolen, they bagged alot of people mostly teens.

Anyway I was wondering, when is a property (I don't mean real estate, I'm talking about an item like a bike or jewelry) considered abandoned? Don't you think that this is like a form of entrapment? I was laughing at the ridiculousness of this sting, I mean if a person is dumb enough to leave their bike unattended, not tied up or nothing, on the street of such a place they deserve to get their bike stolen.

What if, the person yelled out: "whose bike does this belong to? Ok I'm taking it to the police precint's lost property dept." That way they have a good alibi...lol

What do you guys think?

Answer 1

I am a police officer who has actually run one of these "ridiculous" sting operations. First let me address your opinion on the sting being ridiculous. Usually these things are not meant to apprehend juveniles or petty offenders. In my experience we always let those people go. It was however, very effective in the service of arrest warrants and making gun and drug arrests. Crime arises out of opportunity and criminals cannot resist an opportunity. While running this sting once, a prior felon approached the bike. Someone screamed from a nearby porch, "don't take the bike, the cops are watching." The guy took the bike anyway. He ended up being armed with a handgun stolen from a residential burglary, had felony warrants out for him and was a registered sex offender. There is nothing ridiculous about taking someone like that off the street. When we would get a kid or someone who posed no real threat, we would usually just call their parents and send the on their way. I don't know what they were doing on "Cops" but I can tell you they were probably trying to spice it up for T.V.

As for the issue of entrapment, we never had a problem in New York State. There were cries from the A.C.L.U. types and so forth , but the arrests were never thrown out. I'm sure that a lawyer will read my post and provide case law to the contrary. However, in the arrests we made everything worked out and we got some very bad people who would otherwise still be in those neighborhoods. Think of the female undercover posing as a prostitute. In NYC they had a huge problem with trucks being hijacked. The cops set up a sting with trucks the perps couldn't possibly resist. The cops were inside and took down the hijackers. End of problem, no entrapment.

You also say that someone who leaves their bike unattended deserves to get it stolen. Does this same logic apply to leaving your home or car unlocked? If you verbally insult someone, do they have the right to punch your lights out? After all you were asking for it. If a female wears provocative clothing is she asking for it? Sorry, but I don't find it laughable or the victim deserving.

People continually criticize the police and their tactics yet few understand how difficult the work really is. Violent offenders don't come looking for us, we have to find them. We can either wait for you to become a victim or make ourselves the victim. Either way our hearts are in the right place. If the courts tell us to stop what were doing we abide. Till then we try to come up with new and creative ways to protect. Laugh if you will, but have you ever seen a 13 year old kid who got his face smashed in by an adult who stole his bike? I have, several times, and that's when we started our bike sting. We didn't start it because we found a new way to violate people's rights as some might think.

Answer 2

ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

So it is not entrapment to leave a bike out and wait for someone to steal it. However, it does seem like there are more important crimes to be investigating than setting up teenagers with a rap sheet.

Answer 3

I have no doubt that it is legal, and not entrapment, as the courts have ruled in favor over and over again for this behavior. I also believe it is unjust. If I were the attorney forsomeone arrested in this sting, I would argue that the behavior is discrimatory, and hence unconstitutional. Unless the police can show that they set up the same sting in other neighborhoods in ratio to the population regardless of the income level, then I think the point can be argued. i find it ethically deplorable that they resort to tempting the economically disadvantaged in this way. It is akin to leaving a loaded syringe of heroin outside a methadone clinic, and then arresting a user for taking it.

Answer 4

COPS is a show, the police officers realize they are on TV. Moreoever, police officers are people like anyone else (yes, some of them are criminals too). B/c they perceive that defense lawyers use dirty tactics in Court, prosecutors and cops take maximum advantage of the ambiguity in the laws - hence often resorting to deceit, trickery, dirty tactics, coercion, etc. In the case of the sting you mentioned, in all likelihood there is Constitutional impropriety with at least some, if not all, of the "transactions". However, the producers of the show, as well the cops, realize that in all likelihood the victims will not hire expensive lawyers to argue the Constitutionality of the sting. There are numerous other factors and concerns, too many to discuss here, but that's it in a nutshell.

Answer 5

If it not yours leave the damn thing alone. People many times will leave their bikes outside a store while they run in real quick, and this also happens with cars, some people wil leave it running, run into a store and come right out,and maybe its gone. If the deal looks to good to be true, then maybe its a set up. Put to the point, if it does not belong to you, then its not yours for the taking. Maybe the person should say he was going to turn it in to the nearest police station as lost?????

Answer 6

Well, your argument is flawed. If that is the case, then we can't park our cars anywhere but our livingroom because we are "abandoning" them on the street. Or if we go to work have we abandoned our house? If I set my purse on the counter of a store and turn my back to pay does it still belong to me? If you didn't buy it or don't own it........then it's not yours and you don't have a right to take it. It's stealing. I am a GM at a hotel and you would be amazed at what people leave behind. Cell phones, envelopes of cash, designer watches, you name it....what do we do with it? Keep it? NO. It belongs to someone else. Is it abandoned? No. Forgotten yes. We keep it and return it to the owner. And no one "deserves" to have a crime committed against them. That is no different then saying if you dress well and walk down the street you deserved to be robbed.

Answer 7

If it was entrapment they wouldn't be televising it. It's perfectly legitimate. No one deserves to get anything stolen.

And I'm glad the police were doing it, getting thieving losers off the street It's bad enough the mopes are wasting perfectly good oxygen by breathing it. They should go get a job and earn the money to get their own bike.

Answer 8

I wished it was like it was when I was a kid . Go off and leave the house with the doors unlocked. Go in the store and get a candy bar and come out and get back on your bike and ride off. None of this crap of your bike being stolen or your being beat up for your shoes. I think the cops should catch every one of the S.O.B.'s and string them up. Anything it takes to get that kind of CRAP off of the streets more power to them.

Answer 9

I think people should know better than to leave there bike unlocked these days. Some people do abandon them. When i got a new bike i left my old one against a lamp post outside my house. It was funny watching some kid quickly ride off with it thinking he was steeling it when really he was doing me a favor.

Answer 10

An alful waist of time and money, setting up people to steal a bike while the drug dealers and pimps are running wild.