Why do some teachers, who cant teach, get paid more than those who can?

Question

I am a substitute teacher doing a leave replacement. I have noticed that many teachers who do not have a clue on how to maintain their class make more than the ones who do have a better idea. Is it their degree? Is it the amount of in service points? You would think with all the in service points a teacher would do better! I know a teacher in my district who cannot handle her 1rst grade class. A student had noticably different behavior (didnt do HW, very quiet) and I told the mother about this when i saw her! (I subbed for her class often prior to getting the leave position). She talked to the teacher and the teacher gave her a non chalant yes that she saw the difference. When the mother questioned her why didnt she say anything about the HW, the teacher had no answer and walked away! I have subbed for her class many times and I know I can do a damn better job! Alas, I am the lowly sub who is waiting for a teacher to retire to become FT .

FancyName, my district should be based on the Merit system. I would love it if it was! Lord knows how many of these teachers who manage to slide by or know people in the higher up would really last!

To Bekka:


RE: Degrees

I have an MS in Elem. Edu.
Dual Certified in Elementary & Spec Ed.


I know I didn't mention this (oops) but next time you can also ask! :-)

Mckayla, if my district didn't think that I was qualifed to do a leave of absence, I would say that you have a point about the bulk of the things you said. Obviously I am doing something right if I was chosen ahead of the subs with longer service time.

RE: if I ever heard one comparing themselves to me, especially to parents and co-workers, I would be totally pissed.


Your problem is that you dont realize that the only difference between you and me is a different contract. I don't know what degrees you have earned but I am one of the few subs with a Masters.

So you're proving my point of the "lowly sub" which is how many teachers treat us. You could have more experience than me and thats fine. But if you get to the barebones of it we are both teachers. You're full time and I'm part time that's what it comes down to!

One more thing, I don't criticize teachers to their face. When I'm at work I hold my opnions. The sad part is that the people who make such comments are the rest of the faculty who always have something to say in the teachers lounge. That's a whole different topic though.

Mckayla

RE: but if I am doing my job well.... it will refect in your success


That's the thing, she isn't! She seems to be there only for the benefits! She hasn't failed anyone for as long as I've been there. My guess is that she wants to seem perfect and only gives her all when she is being observed. (this is what someone else said in their post here).

Answer 1

In my district, it's simple...teacher's union. This is one of the ugliest, nastiest concepts in education and the unions have completely corrupted the educational systems. The best teachers in the world are the ones that won't join the union. They are the ones that are there for the kids.

Answer 2

Most pay is based on credits and time in the district. If the teacher does his or her job, its a given. It is rarely based on actual talent or merit unless you are a national merit teacher. Every school has teachers that are worse than others. SOme of it is perspective. For some students, one teachers methods are perfect while for another they are horrible. THere are different learning and teaching styles and they need to match. I know you are frustrated with subbing, but hang in there, jobs will become available.

Answer 3

I concur that most pay grades are based on level of education and years of service.... but that doesn't mean the senior teachers are necessarily "bad" teachers... some of them are still going strong after all these years and education! Here is what I have observed in my job at a local high school...

There is a point where there is "burn-out." Some teachers just need to move on to another field after a number of years... they are tired of teaching the same thing over and over and have grown bored and irritable... if they are not willing to change the way they teach, they maybe should move on...

Another factor is this... many teachers will renew their credentials, but take classes that deal primarily with integrating technology in the classroom...not with dealing with the current issues that face children today and learning how to deal with the personalities of the children, parents, and co-workers... when faced with some of the current problems, they just don't know how to handle it.

And, yet another factor is the emerging fact that teachers are no longer the "authority" figure they once were... the children seem to be in control these days... they know their power (i.e. false charges of abuse, crying "unfair" to mommy, issuing invalid complaints against a teacher who is actually doing a good job) and they know this will get them what they want... I see this in high school quite a bit. Many parents feel a bit guilty for asking the teacher to raise their child and when the child comes home and complains that the teacher expects them to do their work in a timely manner (or some other complaint that reflects their inability to take responsibility for their own actions), the parent goes to battle for that child... whether or not it is a valid battle... they do it out of guilt and to prove to the child that they've got "their back..."

Now... if you are truly concerned about the future of education, stop being a "lowly sub" and get your MA or M.Ed or even PhD in Education and apply for a job as a teacher... if you have to wait for a teacher to retire to become a FT teacher, go to another district. If teaching is in your heart and you are passionate about making a difference, maybe YOU need to move rather than waiting for someone else to move. Get out there and DO a better job!!! Take the chance and get moving... the kids need more people who are ready to be innovative, energetic, and enthused about teaching. Just don't be surprised if, 20 years from now, you burn out, get tired of listening to parents whine about their precious baby, or get frustrated at the politics involved in teaching.... teaching isn't just about dealing with the kids... it is about meeting district requirements in the classroom, reporting to parents, principals, board members, and other "concerned" constituents... you get stuck in the middle of a war that has nothing to do with what you teach in the classroom and see if you are still as thrilled with the job as you first started out!!!

Answer 4

As many people noted in many school systems money is based on how long a person has been in the district or in the teaching profession. Money is also based on how much education the teacher has. Many schools offer compensation for coaching and sponsorship. It is often felt this is more fair than "rating system or merit system" Personality conficts or sucking up to a person in charge should not effect one's salary. I know there are teachers in the system that are getting paid more than others and it seems that they are not doing their job as well as others.

However, as a substitute teacher, you do not see the whole picture. You see students for a short time. I know as a substitute teacher, some classes are soooo easy to motivate, but try doing it day in and day out, and having to deal with more than just one days activity. Short term from September to December it is a task to get kids motivated to turn in work everyday, to learn procedures and expectations. By mid-year, teachers get wore out dealing with paperwork, emotionally being tied to situations that you have no control over. By mid year, the kids are tired, wore out, looking forward to summer. (or a change) That substitute comes in with a dynamic personality and WOOHOO, there is going to be change in behavior. THat substitute that comes in and MIxes up a daily routine can be very motivating. IT doesn't mean you are doing a better job, it makes you a great diversion. I'm not saying you didn't do a great job. Substitute teaching can be one of the hardest jobs ever, but you should not compare yourself to someone who is in the classroom day in and day out, making the lesson plans, dealing with the paperwork and daily traumas and discipline. I appreciate every substitute teacher that walks in my door to take on the challenges of my classroom when I am not available, but HOLY Cow if I ever heard one comparing themselves to me, especially to parents and co-workers, I would be totally pissed. (and i would recommend they not be placed in my room again) I don't mean to be ugly....but if you have a MS degree, and are duel certified with special education, you should be able to walk into a school and get a job. WHy are you having to wait for someone to retire??? I do not have a MS, but I do have duel certification and that special ed. pretty much guarranttees a job.
Perhaps if you were not talking badly about people who could be potential co-workers, you wouldn't have this problem, but instead a job.
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In response: You forgot ... or didn't read the part where I said... I appreciate everty substitute that walks into my classroom. I realize that substitute teaching is a very important part of the school system. I make very thorough lesson plans, I work very hard to back up any discipline issue the substitute may have, and I reward my students for behaving appropriately when there is a substitute in the room. I have small children of my own, and I pretty much use my sick days every year. However... if I were to hear anyone who walks into my room comparing themselves to me, it would piss me off... a substitute, a counselor, or another teacher. That is very unprofessional and very arrogant behavior.
People talk.. and in small communities teachers come up as an easy target. So when you do talk to others about teachers, it generally will get back to them, or their advisers. It doesn't matter where you when express your opinions... gossip travels,and this could affect you getting placed in the school system.
I agree that we are both teachers, but if I am doing my job well.... it will refect in your success as well. (lets go back to writing the lesson plans, having appropriate discipline strategies in place, teaching the students the routine and expected behavior if this is done well... you will have a successful day no matter what classroom you are in.)

Answer 5

well they could be more assertive and just ask for a better pay. they could also be pretending to look so good when people who decide things like promotions or paychecks come but when he is normally teaching he just acts like he usually does. they just want to make themselves look good and not fail any kids so it looks like they are good teachers and all of their students are "perfect". trust me I've had experience with people like this before. it really bothers me that people can't see what is going on behind their backs.

Also the other teacher may have worked longer and then it comes across that they have had more experience but that doesn't mean they are wiser. You could be 100 years old and teaching since the day you were born but that doesn't mean you are good at it.

Answer 6

In my town, a teacher's pay is heavily weighted toward seniority. I've seen veteran teachers, making loads of money and benefits, biding their time until retirement. Some of these deadbeat teachers could care less. Good thing they're not all like that.

Answer 7

It depends on the degree. B.A, Maters, master's plus 30, Ph.D, or doctorate, as well as years of experience

I know lots of teachers who only babysit. They passs out worksheets and call that teaching

Answer 8

Because they have more schooling and more seniority. Simple.

Answer 9

Because ANYONE who is willing to get a BA to babysit a bunch of stupid insipid little twits deserves any money they come across.

Answer 10

Seniority is everything