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Who's side are you on?

Bret "Hitman" Hart or Shawn "Heartbreak Kid" Michaels?

Well here's the story if you don't know what I'm talking about:

It will go down in history as the single most famous finish of a pro wrestling match in the modern era. Twenty or thirty years from now this story, more than any famous wrestler jumping promotions, more than any prominent death, and more than any record setting house, will be remembered vividly by all who watched it live, and remembered as legendary from all who hear about it later. Through the magic of video tape, the last minute of this match will live forever and be replayed literally millions of times. But the story of what led to those few seconds starts more than one year ago, far more reminiscent of the dirty con man past of the industry than the current attempted facade of a multi-million dollar corporate above board image those in the industry like to portray outwardly that it has evolved into.

2006-12-14 10:00:05 · 18 answers · asked by Carlito 2 in Sports Wrestling

October 20, 1996: Bret Hart was in a hotel room in San Jose, Ca, hours from making the biggest decision of his life - who would win the biggest bidding war in the history of pro wrestling. He had pretty well leaned toward staying with the World Wrestling Federation despite a much larger offer from World Championship Wrestling, but had changed his mind a few times over the previous two weeks as each side presented new offers. In the waning hours, Eric Bishoff and Kevin Nash were trying to convince him to change his mind and how great life was with an easier schedule. Bischoff was offering big money and a shot at becoming a movie star, a goal Hart had been pursuing while in semi-retirement. McMahon was offering him, in the now immortal words of Arn Anderson, not just a spot but the top spot in the company, and almost literally to be WWF 4-life.

2006-12-14 10:00:25 · update #1

Many close advisers of Hart’s tried to tell him going to WCW was the best move for his present, and more importantly his future after wrestling. But largely out of loyalty, and that obviously wasn’t the only factor involved, he declined the offer. McMahon, not to lose a very public fight, offered him the famous 20-year contract where he’d, after retirement in about three years, become almost a first lieutenant when it came to the booking process. Hart would earn somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.5 million per year as an active wrestler, and a healthy but far lesser figure working in the front office for the 17 years after retirement as an active wrestler. As part of McMahon’s offer, he also was going to allow Hart to explain live on television his decision making process, should he sign with WCW.

2006-12-14 10:00:51 · update #2

Hart flew to Fort Wayne, Indiana, where the WWF was holding it’s live Raw taping after having already verbally agreed to the deal, signed the contract, and gave the interview saying basically that he would be in the WWF forever, figuring to be positioned as the top babyface and perennial champion until he finished his active career riding off into the sunset in a blaze of glory, like Hogan and Savage and the rest of the Superstars before him didn’t. As is the case in wrestling, not all the promised scenarios that everyone believed were going to happen transpire as originally planned. And just over one year later, the feelings between McMahon and Bret Hart had taken a 180 degree turn, to the degree nobody would have ever believed.

2006-12-14 10:01:12 · update #3

March 10, 1997: Top babyface didn’t last long as McMahon asked him to turn heel. At first Hart balked at the idea but after three days, McMahon presented him with two lists. One list was his prospective opponents as a babyface - Vader, Mankind, and Steve Austin. the other list was his prospective opponents as a heel, Undertaker, Michaels, and Austin. Hart agreed for drawing money his opponents as a heel made up a better list and he and McMahon agreed that he would turn back babyface over the last few months of his contract and end his career on a positive note.

He and Steve Austin did the double-turn at Wrestlemania. Hart himself then came up with the Anti-American angle, where he would remain a babyface in Canada and Europe and do interviews that would for the most part speak the truth, so he could, when the time came to turn back in the U.S., have a reasonable explanation.

2006-12-14 10:01:37 · update #4

September 8, 1997: Vince McMahon and Bret Hart had their first meeting where McMahon seriously approached Hart about his contract. About three months earlier, McMahon had told Hart that the company was in bad financial straights and that they might have to defer some of the money until later in the contract. This time his approach was more than point blank.

He wanted to cut Hart’s regular salary, around $30,000 per week, more than in half and defer the rest of the money until later in the contract period when hopefully the company would be in better shape financially. Hart declined the suggestion, because he didn’t want to risk not getting the money in the future after he was through taking all the bumps.

2006-12-14 10:02:02 · update #5

September 20, 1997: About one hour before the beginning of the PPV show in Birmingham, England, McMahon approached Davey Boy Smith and asked him to put over Shawn Michaels that night for the European title. Smith was apparently shocked, having been told all along in the build-up of the show, that Michaels was going to do a job for him, since Europe was promised to be “his territory”. The explanation, which made and still makes logical business sense, is that they wanted to build for a bigger show - a second PPV show from Manchester, England, Smith’s former home town, where Smith would regain the title - the same scenario the WWF did to draw 60,000 fans in San Antonio with Michaels in the other role working a program with Sycho Sid.

2006-12-14 10:02:53 · update #6

So while it all made sense, it was rather strange he wasn't approached with this idea until just before the start of the show. At around this same time period, McMahon approached Hart about working with Michaels. Hart said that he had a problem with that since Michaels had still never really apologized to him for the Sunny days comment and said it would be hard to trust somebody like that in the ring and due to their past, and told McMahon that he would figure that Michaels would have the same concerns, since a few weeks earlier, after first making it clear he would never work with anyone in the Hart Foundation, Michaels had finally agreed to work with only Smith, saying he still couldn’t trust Bret or Owen.

2006-12-14 10:03:13 · update #7

September 22, 1997: On the day of the Raw taping at Madison Square Garden, McMahon told Bret Hart flat out that they were going to intentionally breach his contract because they couldn’t afford the deal. He told a shocked Hart that he should go to World Championship Wrestling and make whatever deal he could with that group. “I didn’t feel comfortable doing it," Hart said of the suggestion. “I feel like an old prisoner in a prison where I know all the guards and all the inmates and I have the best cell. Why would I want to move to a new prison where I don’t know the guards and the inmates and I no longer have the best cell? I felt really bad after all the years of working for the WWF.”

2006-12-14 10:04:19 · update #8

Hart had an escape clause in his contract since he had so much negotiating leverage when making his WWF deal 11 months earlier, in that he could leave the company giving 30 days notice and that he would have what the contract called “reasonable creative control” of his character during that lame duck period so that he couldn’t be unreasonably buried on the way out. There was a window period for giving that notice and negotiating elsewhere that hadn’t begun yet, so McMahon, showing he was serious, gave Hart written permission to begin negotiating with WCW and Hart contacted Eric Bischoff.

2006-12-14 10:04:39 · update #9

Hart had an escape clause in his contract since he had so much negotiating leverage when making his WWF deal 11 months earlier, in that he could leave the company giving 30 days notice and that he would have what the contract called “reasonable creative control” of his character during that lame duck period so that he couldn’t be unreasonably buried on the way out. There was a window period for giving that notice and negotiating elsewhere that hadn’t begun yet, so McMahon, showing he was serious, gave Hart written permission to begin negotiating with WCW and Hart contacted Eric Bischoff.

2006-12-14 10:04:43 · update #10

The same day, during a meeting with Hart, Michaels and McMahon - Michaels told both of them point blank that he wouldn't do any jobs for anyone in the territory, word that when it got out made most of the other top wrestlers feel even more warmly than usual toward Michaels. Michaels later reiterated that statement to Hart on 10/4, in St. Paul, when the two agreed that for the good of the business that they’d work together. At a meeting, McMahon proposed a scenario where the two would have their first singles match in Montreal, where Undertaker would interfere causing a non-finish.

2006-12-14 10:05:21 · update #11

This would lead to Hart wrestling Undertaker on the 12/7 PPV in Springfield, Ma., where Michaels would interfere causing Bret to win the title, which was poetic justice since it was his interference that caused Bret to win the title in the first place, and that Royal Rumble on 1/8, in San Jose, would be headlined by Undertaker vs. Michaels. During the meeting, Hart told Michaels that he’d be happy to put him over at the end of the run, but Michaels told Hart flat out that he wouldn't return the favor to him. Michaels and Hart spoke again on the subject on 10/12 in San Jose, when once again Michaels told Hart that he wasn’t going to do a job for him.

2006-12-14 10:05:45 · update #12

October 21, 1997: McMahon approached Hart with the idea of losing the title to Michaels in Montreal but promised that he would win it back on 12/7. Hart, remembering his conversations where Michaels was adamant about not doing any more jobs in the territory, was reluctant, saying after the way the angle had been done with him representing Canada and it becoming a big patriotic deal, that he didn’t want to lose the title in Canada. He was then asked to lose to Michaels on 12/7 in Springfield, Ma. Hart told McMahon that since Michaels had told both of them that he wasn't doing any more jobs in the territory, that he had a problem doing a job for somebody who wouldn’t do a job back. He told McMahon that he didn’t want to drop the title in Montreal.

2006-12-14 10:06:11 · update #13

Later, McMahon, Pat Patterson, Michaels, and Hart had another meeting where Michaels, teary eyed, said that he was looking forward to returning the favor to Bret and once again talked about his mouth saying the stupidest things. Hart still refused to lose the title in Montreal. The night before, he had been asked to put Hunter Heart Helmseley over in Oklahoma City via pin fall due to Michaels’ interference, but changed the finish to a count out. On this night he was asked to tap out to Ken Shamrock, before the DQ ending involving Michaels, which he had no problem doing because he liked and respected Shamrock and wanted to help elevate him.

2006-12-14 10:06:32 · update #14

The personal problems with himself and Michaels, which had become legendary in the business, resurfaced once again when the two and McMahon made an agreement to work together but to leave their respective families out of their interviews. It took just one week before Michaels did the interview talking about Stu Hart being dead but walking around Calgary because his body and brain hadn’t figured it out yet. By this point, Hart had already stopped watching Raw because he had problems with the content of the show because he has four children that were wrestling fans that he didn’t want seeing the direction it was going, so he was reacting to the remark based on the fact that his father and brother Owen heard the remarks and were upset about them.

2006-12-14 10:07:10 · update #15

October 24, 1997: McMahon, before the show at Nassau Coliseum, told Hart that the money situation in the company had changed and they would have no problems paying him everything promised in his contract. Hart told McMahon that WCW really hadn’t made him a serious offer and that he really didn’t want to leave but that he was still uncomfortable doing the job for Michaels in that situation. He left the country for the tour of Oman with the idea that he was staying with the WWF, but knowing due to his window in his contract, he had to make the decision to give notice by midnight on 11/1.

2006-12-14 10:08:05 · update #16

October 31, 1997: Never one to work without a flair for the dramatics, Bischoff finally caught up with Hart who was basically incommunicado in a foreign land most of the week. Just one day before Hart had to either give notice or stay for another year, Bischoff made a huge concrete offer. We don’t know the exact terms of the offer, only that Hart said of the $3 million per year figure that both Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler talked about on the 11/10 Raw, that “they don’t have any idea what I was offered”, but other sources close to the situation say that figure is “close enough that you couldn’t call it wrong”. Hart neither agreed nor turned down the deal, but gave the impression to WCW that they had a great shot at getting him.

2006-12-14 10:08:25 · update #17

November 1, 1997: Hart had until midnight to make up his mind. He called McMahon and told him about the WCW offer and said that he wasn’t asking for any more money to stay, but that he wanted to know what his future in the WWF would be over the next two years as an active wrestler and that at this point he was leaning toward accepting the WCW offer. McMahon said he’d think about it and call him back in an hour with some scenarios. Before McMahon called back, Bischoff called again trying to solidify the deal. McMahon ended up calling back four hours later from his barber shop and told Hart he didn’t know what he was going to do with him but that he should trust his judgment because of their past relationship. That he had made him into a superstar and he wanted him to stay and that he should trust him and asked Hart to give him ideas of where he wanted to go.

2006-12-14 10:09:19 · update #18

During the conversation, McMahon still brought up the scenario of wanting Hart to drop the title in Montreal, but promised that he would get it back in Springfield. “I realized he had given the top heel spot to Shawn, but to turn back babyface it was too soon,” Hart said. Like in the negotiations one year earlier, it was going down to the wire and he had until midnight to make up his mind. When he was talking to McMahon, McMahon told him he could extend the deadline for giving notice. Hart asked for the permission in writing but McMahon told him that he was going out to a movie that night with his wife and said he was verbally giving permission to extend it and get written permission from the chief financial officer of the company. When Hart called to get the written notice he wasn't given it because he was told he couldn’t get it in writing in such short notice. At 7pm Bischoff called again and presented a deal that, according to Hart, “ would have been insane not to be taken”.

2006-12-14 10:10:12 · update #19

18 answers

Bret Hart ofcourse! How pathetic is it to be screwed in your own hometown?...Vince screwed him and i think Bret is a great man that he agreed to come to the WWE cermony. If i was Bret i would never have even wanted to see Vince's face!

2006-12-14 10:52:02 · answer #1 · answered by CodeRed 4 · 2 4

I dont think it's between Brett and Shawn. Its really between Brett and Vince. I dont think what Vince did was right, but i also dont think that he is wrong for it. At the time WWE was in a serious battle with WCW and in the past there was Alundra Blaze (Medusa) who was on Raw one week and the womens champ, and she shows up on Nitro the next and she throws her championship belt in the trash. I think Vince did what he felt he had to do to prevent another situation like that.
I dont think that Brett was wrong for being pissed, but cmon it was 10 years ago, I think it is time to move on. If you ask people today, a lot will say that Brett is a jaded S.O.B. Look Vince inducts him in the Hall of Fame and Brett comes out the da of the event and says if HBK is there then he is leaving. So HBK did the right thing for the company and he left.
Nobody brings up the point that Brett claims Vince screwed him, and that Vince cause Owen's tragic death, but Brett has no problem signing a deal so he can get a cut from the Hitman dvd sales. So instead of blaming Vince, the man in charge (and the man who is giving him roalty money from DVD sales) he goes after Shawn, who might be the only innocent one in the whole situation.
Look I liked Brett, but I also got tired of listening to his bitter tirades one week against Vince, then shaking his hand and pocketing the money from the DVD. I think that when Brett told Vince that he would walk out of the Hall of Fame, Vince should have told him to leave. Look everybody but Brett is over this, but this is the only way Brett can get any publicity.
Instead of hating Shawn, Brett should hate the man that really ended his carreer, Goldberg. Brett could never wrestle again after Goldberg screwed up and seriously hurt him

2006-12-14 19:24:35 · answer #2 · answered by crippler5511 6 · 3 1

Why is the finger pointed at Shawn so much? Yes he was involved and knew what was up but what about the Ref he called for the bell. And most importantly Vince made the final call. I probably would have done the same in his shoes with what WCW was doing to the WWF belts.

Most importantly this was 10 years ago. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON PLEASE.

2006-12-15 00:41:15 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 1 2

Good question,just a bit long.i am on Shawn's side,it really had nothing to do with him,it was just between Bret and Vince.

2006-12-14 20:10:51 · answer #4 · answered by ASK A.S. 5 · 4 1

Everybody knows that Bret screwed Bret.

2006-12-15 00:55:36 · answer #5 · answered by WWE Champ 5 · 2 2

i read the story but... this is confusing. vince screwed bret, not shawn. shawn had nothing to do with this but it was only vince vs. bret. if u saw the mcmahon dvd it will tell you that shawn had absollutly nothing to do with it. it was vince's fault the whole time. so.... im siding with shawn's side. the part i dont get is why was shawn humping the canadian flag?????? that is just sick, but i have to agree. it wasnt shawn's fault.!!! great story anyways. where did you get that man? GO SHAWN!!! DX DX DX!!

2006-12-14 20:53:59 · answer #6 · answered by ruthieloveswwe 2 · 1 3

I really don't believe that Shawn knew what was really going on? I side with The Heartbreak Kid.

2006-12-14 20:08:27 · answer #7 · answered by The Heartbreak Kid 4 · 3 1

not like it matters anymore, but im on no one's side since it was a work. even bret said so a while back. amazing how it took 10 years for the truth to spoken.

2006-12-14 18:34:39 · answer #8 · answered by Jeff B 2 · 0 4

I'd have to say Bret Hart's. I luv ya Shawn, but you screwed him, screwed him!

2006-12-14 18:04:42 · answer #9 · answered by Joe 3 · 2 3

i didnt read what u just type but i say the Heart Break Kid, Shawn Micheals! DX DX DX DX DX DX DX DX!!!

2006-12-14 18:35:52 · answer #10 · answered by Hardyz X-treme 2 · 2 3

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