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Non-Biblical sources, please.

2006-12-11 06:54:25 · 8 answers · asked by Sabrina H 4 in Arts & Humanities History

I'll leave this to voters. There are a number of interesting answers, but I was hoping for a definitive one providing a reliable/verifiable source.

I just started studying the Bible, after listening to lectures on ancient history, and it struck me that none of those lectures mentioned the Jews being enslaved in Egypt. One actually said that the Egyptians were not known for keeping slaves (contrary to popular depiction). I don't think the Hebrews could have been the Hyksos, because the Hyksos conquered Egypt. Then I read a random comment online stating that the Jews were actually rescued by some ancient king...no verification or details on that one.

I don't know. It's possible, but I haven't seen evidence that this story is true (or believed to be true by a majority of historians). If you can provide any guidance, please add a comment.

2006-12-12 11:46:29 · update #1

8 answers

Dear Sabrina

Below is part of an essay that I researched many years ago.
Although it does not answer your Question directly, it does refer to the Plagues that are recorded in the Bible. In one section it refers to slaves that were fleeing, and how the Egyptians gave them gold and silver. (It seems that they wanted to be rid of these slaves.) The Bible records this too.

The style of writing indicated that this document was written at the end of the middle Kingdom. It is interesting to note that at the end of the Middle Kingdom and for 400 years Egypt was under the domination of the "Amu". After the Exodus the Israelites faught the "Amal" and their allies for 400 years.

An Egyptian Eye witness account of the Plagues

In 1828, somewhere near the Great Pyramid an ancient document was found. Subsequently it was purchased by the Museum of Leiden in Holland, and is there as catalogue number 344. It is commonly known as the “Ipuwer Papyrus”. It has 17 pages, with writing on both the front and the back side. On the back is an ode to an Egyptian god. Much of the beginning and end are in poor condition. The front side has given Egyptologists great consternation. Early on they thought that it was a set of poems and proverbs. After more accurate translations were done, they considered it a prophecy of doom. In 1909 a famous Egyptologist, Alan Gardener, did a thorough translation and came to the conclusion that although he still thought that it was a prophecy, the realism was incredible. Since Egyptologists deny that the plagues ever occurred, there is no way that Gardener could have tried to make this into something that resembles the Biblical story.

Below are excerpts from that document.

...The land turns round like a potter’s wheel...The towns are destroyed. Egypt has become a dry wasteland... All is ruined...Residences are overturned in a minute...There is noise (Possibly this means earthquakes or something similar) ...Years of noise...Oh that the world would cease from noise and tumult be no more...A plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere...The River is blood...Men shrink from tasting --(We) thirst after water...That is our water. That is our happiness. What shall we do in respect thereof...? Forsooth, gates, columns, and walls are consumed (By fire falling from the sky (Insertion by Gardener.)). Lower Egypt weeps... The entire palace is without revenue. To it belong (by right) wheat and barley, geese and fish. All is ruin... Trees are destroyed... There are no fruits or herbs to eat...Grain has perished on every side...What was here yesterday is now gone. The land is left to its own weariness like the cutting of flax...there is hunger...All animals weep. Cattle moan...Each man tries to catch those that have his brand... The land is dark...The children of the princes are dashed against the walls... The children of the princes are cast out into the street...the prisons are ruined...He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere... There is a groaning across the land, mingled with lamentations...The graves cast out their dead and lay them on high ground...Great and small say: I wish that I might die... Men (slaves) rebel against the great seal of Egypt...Gold and jewels are fastened to the necks of slaves (as they flee)...behold a great consuming fire reaches up to the sky.

Even in poor condition, the last few words of this part of the document reveal much.

...weep...the earth is...on every side...weep

The parchment continues. It talks about the Pharaoh losing his life in an unusual way. It then talks about an invasion of the defenseless country by bloodthirsty invaders.

Although it seems plain that this document is giving a detailed description of the Plagues, neither Gardener nor any other Egyptologist will admit that this is the case. Why is this? Because the “Ipuwer Papyrus” was written about 600 years before the accepted time of the Exodus.

Once I found this link, I researched Egyptian History and found all kinds of correlations. I found Joseph, and The Queen of Sheba, The temple of Solomon,and much more.

I hope this helps

Bryan

2006-12-11 13:38:16 · answer #1 · answered by free2bme55 3 · 2 1

Your asking a difficult question actually. The problem is that the Jews were only identified as such after the Biblically mentioned slavery. Therefore, you are not going to have any Egyptian documents referring to "Jews" or "Hebrews." In a way, speaking of Hebrew slavery is anachronistic because they didn't have the self-identity of Hebrews until afterwards (if they were there at all).

There are many sources indicating that a northern people living near the Ammorites (about present day Jordan) were enslaved around the proper period. This could be the Hebrews. There is also some discussion of "Hyksos" peoples living the Nile delta that may fit the Biblical Hebrew description. They are said to be foreigners that came to the area freely but then became enslaved. They grew large in number, mounted some type of rebellion and left to settle north of Egypt. This sounds like a prety good fit, but there are some problems too.

The real issue in Ancient Near Eastern scholarship around this question though tends to be around the issue of whether the Hebrews came up out of Egypt and, if so, did they do so in a single "exodus" establishing Israel, and if so when. The issue of who the early Hebrews were and where they originally came from is quite a big topic in the field. Most books dealing with the Early/ Middle Bronze Age history and archeology will address this issue in some form. Good question and good luck!

To the previous post: There most certainly is written evidence of the American Revolution outside of American books, e.g. European newspapers, personal letters and diaries, physical artifacts, etc. I would agree that the Bible is a historical record, and even a pretty good one considering it covers a period almost 4000 years old. But no good history relies on a single source without corroboration. This isn't an "anti-Bible bias," this is just good scholarship.

2006-12-11 15:20:09 · answer #2 · answered by Josh 3 · 6 0

There are only very rare references by the Ancient Egyptians of Israel,and Israelites. none regarding using them as a people,for slaves.
There are references to what may well be people that we now call Jews, being servents,even officials.
If they, as a people left Egypt enmass, then they definatley returned in later centuries or
not all left to begin with.
Egyptians left no information regarding the "Exodus",which is quite strange as they are reknown for thier thier records of significant and nonsignificant events. Which is one of the reasons we are able to find out considerable information about thier culture.The Walls of the Karnak and Luxor complexes are among those that show prisoners of war whose future would be death or slavery. None of the associated heiroglphic writings indicate that any of these people were the people we now refer to as Jews.
It appears most came from entirely differant areas than those where the early Israelites settled. Thutmosis 3 took the lands right up to what we now call Lebanon, and there is no mention of him returning with Israelite slaves.
So, I would really have to say that in my opinion,no,there is no evidence that the Jews were enslaved in Egypt.
They certainly did not act as slave labour in the building of the pyramids.As this work was a type of national service, that each nome or area was expected, in repect to the Pharoah, to supply willing workers. It was in some cases thought a great honour to be selected.
Hoping this has helped even a bit,for your search for an answer.

2006-12-11 18:22:00 · answer #3 · answered by sistablu...Maat 7 · 3 0

this is like asking if there is any evidence that there was an american revolution, other than the books of american history.
you mean, is there any evidence besides the evidence?

why would you exclude the book of exodus? would you similarly exclude the rituals and celebrations of passover?

i think what you mean is: "is there any evidence which CORROBORATES the evidence in the bible that the jews were enslaved in egypt"

genesis and exodus provide the best historical evidence of the egyptian captivity. the fact that jews have a cultural memory of this fact to this day via their oral traditions as well as their written texts, and commemorate the exodus annually in the celebration of passover ought to be enough corroboration for anybody.

2006-12-11 15:18:36 · answer #4 · answered by Paul S 3 · 1 5

There are many written records, from Egyptians, Jews, and other cultures, that give us this information.

2006-12-11 15:00:36 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 2 4

Do you mean like in books? Yes there is.

2006-12-11 15:15:47 · answer #6 · answered by sofista 6 · 2 2

I don't know of any, but you gotta dig deep. I found out that pre-Civil War, in many of the slave states, about 30% of slave owners were black slave owners, something they don't teach you in History class.

2006-12-11 14:57:11 · answer #7 · answered by Wendy Love Muffin 1 · 1 3

pick up any historical text that covers that time period, and they will tell you the same... it is common knowledge that the Jews were enslaved in Egypt.

2006-12-11 14:56:25 · answer #8 · answered by J-Rod on the Radio 4 · 1 4

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