The Rabbi says that I am not Jewish?

Question

I understand that the whole "Jewish" thing passes on from the mother, but it was not like that before the 1980's. When my mother was born, she would have been considered Jewish (her father is Jewish)... Unfortunately, she is not a practicing Jew, so I suppose this doesn't sit too well with the Rabbi. I now consider myself a Jew, but the Rabbi refuses to teach me anything because he says that I am not. My family and I celebrate Chanukah and Christmas in December... we also celebrate Passover sometimes. Do you think that this whole "mother" law is ridiculous? Because before, you were a Jew if either your mother or father was Jewish. Why did they change the law?

Actually, it was not always through the mother. If you do research, they changed if sometime after WWII.

Thanks.

Funny how you act so rude and completely angry all because I said "if you do the research". But, you are still wrong. Here is a little history for you.

The view of matrilineal descent as originating at the time of Yavneh is openly held by scholars affiliated with the Conservative movement.

What is the Conservative movement BMCR? Conservative Judaism, (also known as Masorti Judaism in Israel predominantly), is a modern stream of Judaism that arose in the United States in the early 1800's.

Say what? The 1800's?! So you mean the whole thing about matrilineality linage of Jewish peoples started in the 1800's?! But why?!

Like Reform Judaism, the Conservative movement developed in Europe and the United States in the 1800s, as Jews reacted to the changes brought about by the Enlightenment and Jewish emancipation.

Do you see what a little research can do? What a way to come off as an ignorant, prideful, dumb ***.

Thanks.

Answer 1

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Answer 2

Nice research; too bad you came with the wrong conclusions and facts.

Judaism always has been and is a maternal religion that passes through the mother of the child in case of inter-religious marriage.
It is not a late invention and they sure did not "change" it at 1980, or 1880. The situation of a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish father is described in the bible, and so is the possibility of a Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother. guess child of which case is Jewish? The tradition of a Jewish mother occurs in every Jewish community in the world (even in remote and isolated communities like the Jews of Ethiopia), and I can assure you that it were not the American Jews who came up with this idea.

Only Rabbis are qualified to determine whether you're Jewish or not, and they are hard to defeat.
You could either fight them and not be recognized as Jewish, or you could just convert.
Anyway, there are many liberal Rabbis that will be glad to teach you anything. You don't have to struggle this specific Rabbi.

Answer 3

THAT is bs my friend. I don't know much about being a jew, but from what i heard from women that want to take the classes to become a jew (because they are marringing a jewish man) you have to be very very presistant (almost to the point of ebing annoying) go there daily and show that you want to learn to be a good jew. Ask him his rational for judging you as it is only gods place to judge the living and the dead right. You need to make a presence. You may even start by asking if you were marrying a jewish man then how would you go about getting into the jew-classes (sorry i dont know what they are called). When all else fails, go over his head or find a new rabbi that is better understanding.

Answer 4

It has never been anything but thru the mother that a child was Jewish-never.

The Reform movement is now accepting a child as Jewish, whether mother or father is Jewish. Tho, you may still find some Reform Rabbis that do not accept this. This will possibly hurt your children someday. If they want to marry in the Conservative or Orthodox movements, they may not be allowed to, as they will not consider them Jewish.

If you want to be Jewish, you should convert thru the Orthodox movement. Then, all branches of the religion will consider you Jewish. Orthodox and Conservative Rabbis do not consider a Reform convert a Jew. Then, Orthodox consider only an Orthodox conversion valid.

Answer 5

If the rabbi refuses to teach you, no matter what the reason, he is being a bad Jew. Jews aren't supposed to turn one another away from anything. In my family, my father is the Jew, but it didn't (and still doesn't) make any difference to the rabbi in the synagogue that I belong to. I believe that the law was changed because of WWII and if a child was born to a jewish family, the parents could save that child by lying about their religion. However, I could be wrong. As for the rabbi, I say CHANGE SYNAGOGUES. no matter what sect of judaism you belong to, I'm sure that you could find a rabbi who acts like a good Jew.

Answer 6

Please do not adivse people to do "research" on a topic when you yourself are ignorant.
Although, normally, I'd forgive you for not knowing something, but when you say something that is clearly false, someone corrects you, and you tell them to do the research then you deserve to be called ignorant despite its being pejorative.

So, I'm going to tell you explicitely:
Judaism never had a law that said one was a Jew by their father, only by the mother is one Jewish or they have converted properly.

So, don't believe me? Well, maybe YOU should do the research.

Update:

I still stand by my statement when I said you were ignorant.
Your quick 5 minute "Google research" does not vindicate you on this matter, though it is a little better than before.
So, let us anylize what you have added to the discussion:
1) You have said that it is the view of Conservative scholars that "Jews from the mother" dates from Yavneh.
2) You have taken it apon yourself to let me know what the Convservative movement is
3) You state when the Conservstive movement started and somehow link that to the idea of matrilienal lineage

1) Yavneh is a reference to the town in which the Jewish Sanhedrin (something else you can do research on) relocated to around the time of the destruction of Bayit Sheni (something else you can look up) around the year 70, as in 1st century. Assuming the conservatives are correct, this means it has been around for over 1900 years, not 60.
Also, they are incorrect about this one. Thousands of years of Jewish scholarship that predates modern scholarship never concluded that being Jewish was through the mother only from Yavneh, rather this was true since Jews became a nation at Sinai around 3300 years ago.
2) your attempts at telling me the history of the Conservative movement was pointless, since I know that already.
3) That brings us to this. You seem to be saying that since they started in the 1800s, thus it was they who instituted it at the time. If this is really what you meant, then imagine Jon Stewart of the Daily Show turning to the other camera and saying "WhAAAAAAA?" What does one have to do with the other?
And even if you are correct, that STILL contradicts your statement about it being instituted after WWII (which I need not tell you did not happen in the 18oos).

Why am I doing this? Because, to be quite frank, your attitude stinks. You seem to be interested in Judaism (which I have no objection to) and want to learn from a rabbi. But when you find out you are not Jewish, you get all ornery about it and label him as ridiculous when all he was going on was what Judaism says.

Even if you are not Jewish, you can still convert, but with the attitude that you have armed with very little knowledge and claiming that you do, I don't see how far you can go with that without changing the way you think.

Answer 7

The mother has always been the determiner of who is Jewish... at least for the last 1600yrs or so and I believe longer than that. There were some changes made in a big councel back around 400AD but do not know all the Judaic law stuff as it applies to birth status.

Answer 8

No, they are not nonetheless JewISH. they're nonetheless Jews with techniques from start. not some thing can take that away, although, what they have performed is blemish this, tarnish it, actually throw feces on it. Tossed it interior the trash. this suggests they are not JewISH any further once they apostate to a distinct faith which include Christianity. They now not have any privileges or rights interior the Jewish community. They now not must be buried in a Jewish cemetery. they could now not participate in rituals on the synagogue. they're considered useless, with techniques from the community, can not marry into the community both. even as they die and are judged, they're going to be judged as heretics, as apostates. not as Jews. P.S. Do attempt to do not ignore that maximum Messianic "Jews" have by no skill been Jews. They were not born of a Jewish mom, and they did not convert to Judaism. They were born Gentile and their faith is fundamentalist Christianity, and that doesnt replace to any style of Judaism only with techniques from calling it messianic "judaism". this is not Judaism by any skill. this is Christianity. So those faulty Gentiles who imagine they're replacing to Messianic "Judaism" as a branch of Judaism, are regrettably mistaken. All they have performed is bypass from one style of Christianity to a distinct. So the very, very few actually Jews there, are apostate Jews, heretics, and function tossed their historic previous interior the trash. some thing (over ninety 9% now) are Gentiles and by no skill were Jews interior the first position.

Answer 9

I am sure you can find a reform rabbi who will consider you Jewish, but in truth, matriarchal descent predates conservative Judaism by far.

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_c/bl_matri_descent.htm

this dates the rule to about the tie of the second temple which was destroyed in 70 CE if I am not mistaken. that would make the rule at least 1936 years old

Answer 10

was Abraham born Jewish-did you see the movie Yentle-David Ben Gurion said-who is a Jew? Anyone who wants to be one (acturally said crazy enough to want to be one)

I say your Jewish -yet be a full Jew-have the Jewish Messiah and attend Messianic Synagogue. Read Isaiah 52:13-53:12

Answer 11

There was no change in the law. There have always been two, and only two, ways to be Jewish. Either be born to a Jewish mother, or convert to Judaism in accordance with Torah law.

Halakha as we have it today (and this includes the laws regarding matrilineal descent) is part of a tradition going back to Sinai. And even if you don't believe in the divine origin of the Oral Torah, it would still go back at least 1500-2000 years when the Talmud was codified.

For the record, what is transmitted through the father is tribal identity. The Kohanim (Priests) and Levi'im (Levites) with us today are considered as such because their fathers are Kohanim or Levi'im. But one born to a non-Jewish mother and a kohein father is not considered a kohein because a non-Jewish kohein is a contradiction in terms.

Speaking of self-contradictions, if you understood what Chanukah is about and agreed with it, you wouldn't celebrate Christmas. Chanukah is about trusting in G-d and maintaining our identity as Jews, despite any and all outside pressure (be it foreign cultures or threat of physical violence) to assimilate. It's with a bitter irony that Chanukah has become the most assimilated, Hallmarky of all the Jewish holidays (with Jews and Gentiles alike mistaking it for some sort of "Jewish Christmas"). People who set up Chanukah bushes and give "Chrismukkah" cards are missing the point entirely!

The "mother law" is nothing new, and the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate otherwise.

No offense, but whether you "consider yourself a Jew" is irrelevant to the discussion. You either are a Jew, or you aren't. I can consider the sky to be green, but that doesn't make it so. (And if it does, it's because I'm changing the definition of green to mean blue, just as you're changing the definition of Jew to mean Gentile, rendering the discussion meaningless.) And if you aren't, you can take the necessary steps to become a Jew. I didn't have the benefit of a religious upbringing, and had to have an adult bris, but you don't hear me bitching!

Let's say I was a Moroccan, and I identified closely with American culture, and maybe had some American relatives. Sure I'm not technically a "citizen," but I consider myself American. One day, I hope on a boat bound for the United States. I hop off the boat, and am told I need to get a visa, get my photo and fingerprints taken... Imagine my surprise - after all, I'm an American! Who the hell are these asshole customs agents to tell me I'm not an American?

Does the above scenario sound silly? Who was right? Clearly, the customs agents. Because they're acting in accordance with American law. The United States government passes and enforces laws, in accordance with our Constitution, that define who is and is not an American citizen, as well as the means by which someone can become an American citizen. Only an idiot would question this. Anyone can consider him or herself an American, but it's completely irrelevant. Either they are, or they aren't.

So too is it with the Jews. You're either a Jew, or you aren't. And these days, it's probably easier to become a Jew than it is to become a U.S. citizen! And you have absolutely no justification for being angry at the rabbis, whose job it is to abide by, interpret, and teach our Torah, that is, our people's Constitution. And your contempt for Jewish Law suggests that you're better off as a non-Jew, the same way we don't need any Americans who aren't going to respect and abide by the law of the United States!

Fortunately, Judaism doesn't teach that you need to be Jewish to be "saved" or anything like that. If you want to go celebrate Christmas and Easter, fine! Go ahead - more power to you. But don't delude yourself into thinking this can be reconciled with Jewish observance. Be a Jew, or be a Christian, and you should have all the blessing in the world - but don't walk the hypocritical line along which you're being disloyal to both.

The idea that matrilineal descent is a new concept is simply mistaken. If your mother was considered Jewish, it was because she had been told so by members of the Reform Movement (which ruled that patrilineal descent was acceptable - but this has absolutely nothing to do with what the Torah teaches, and everything to do with deciding that they can overrule G-d because some of them who were not Jewish considered themselves Jewish, and rather than bend themselves to the G-d's will, they saw fit to bend G-d to their will. This is the antithesis of Judaism.)

I invite you to prove otherwise.

And if you really want to discuss the subject further with a rabbi, try the Lubavitchers. They have a website ( http://www.askmoses.com ) where you can talk with one of their folks live, and they can explain to you whether you're Jewish or not, and why that's the case, and how this is not the result of some "new, ridiculous law".

You're obviously very confused, and very angry. But you should understand that a lot of people struggle, and go through a lot, for the right to be called Jews. Several of my closest friends (one of whom grew up Jewish according to the Conservative community, but not according to Jewish law) spent several years studying under the supervision of a Beis Din (whom I feel jerked him around unnecessarily). But he stuck with it, and did things the right way. Because what was important to him was doing things G-d's way, and not spiting the rabbis or the Torah they uphold. He didn't compromise and celebrate the holidays "sometimes," or work Christian observances while "considering himself a Jew". Ain't no such thing as half-way Jews.

If you want to be a Christian, again, have at it. But don't act indignant because the Rabbi refuses to teach you. He has a point!

If your mother was truly Jewish, you would be certifiably, 100% Jewish, and not even the strictest ultra-orthodox rabbi could tell you different, no matter how non-observant she was. And if she wasn't, you're 100% non-Jewish, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! And if you want to become Jewish, you have that option. But the way for you to become Jewish is to change yourself, not to change Judaism. That's what Judaism is all about.

Best of luck to you in discovering who you are, and which path is right for you. My advice is, whichever you choose, choose ONE, and prevent all that cognitive dissonance. When everything is said and done, you'll be a much happier person for it.