Will it be realistically possible for people to refuse to have an ID card?

Question

According to Philip Johnston's article in today's Telegraph, most people will have no choice about having their personal details entered in the national ID database because it will happen automatically when we apply for a passport. This could be extended to driving licence renewals. As he says, not having a passport or driving licence is not a realistic option for most people.

Later on in his article, he claims that there will be hundreds of thousands of ID refuseniks who will refuse to have an ID card.

Johnston doubts that the government would really be able to track down these hundreds of thousands of refuseniks.

Is it possible to have one's details entered on the register but then to refuse to have an ID card?

If the government does need to track anyone down, surely this would be relatively easy if their details are on the database?

I am going to leave this question open until someone answers it!

The question does not ask if ID cards are a good or bad idea. I am trying to critically analyse Johnston's article and the claims that he makes.

Further details about this article are at:
http://theskepticexpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=721

Answer 1

Phillip Johnston of the Telegraph is correct in saying that the people will have no choice as to whether or not they will have an ID card. It will be mandatory.

There is one small glimmer of hope, well two actually. The first is that anyone who buys a UK passport in year 2007, will not be obliged to have the UK ID card until 2017.

A very small glimmer of hope exists for those who believe a Tory gov will dump plans for UK ID cards. Problem is, they have to be elected first and no matter what the polls say now, the next General Election is still a long way off. Plenty of time then for Labour to pull off a coup or two.

Answer 2

Aside from the question, and no, we should not have ID cards, it mazes me just how many people easily cede the point by saying "well, they already have so much information on various databases, so why baulk at one more".

Passive as this response is, typical English, based on the "what can we do" thinking, which translates to "I am a lazy bastard and I can't be bothered", don't you know that the 'Andersons'of the world designed these Government databases, thus rendering them almost certain to be total bollocks in the competence department.

That said, and just to nullify your 'lazy passive ar se' arguement further, why do we need an ID card if these databases have all this information anyway. Look at the Home Office, the criminal Justice codes, Child Support Agency and a host of other such Government databases, and you will see that they do not work.

Don't be so damned passive, resist it. Anyway, I have an Irish passport, just renewed for 10 years, requiring no ID card, so that's me getting out of it my way.

Answer 3

I can assure you that ID cards will be mandatory. The same ID card technology is going to be used in America, most of Europe, Australia, etc. They are already talking of a global card.

The problem is the RFID chip. It's an asset tag for humans and will allow real-time tracking of people just like the Criminal Justice tags given to offenders that are given early release from prison, but much better. You won't even know when your details are being read.

Apart from losing anonymity, privacy and several hundred pounds every time you buy this asset tag, you put all of your details in one easy-to-hack card. It's been proven to be very easy to remotely clone the cards without you even knowing.

Oh yes - the people that think a plastic card is the ultimate cure to terrorism could be wrong as visitors to Britain don't need an ID card and bombs still detonate if you carry a small plastic card.

Answer 4

For sure, they already have a great deal of information on everyone. It seems ludicrous to refuse an I.D. card.

But if everyone just goes along with it, then it wont be long before your I.D.card will carry your fingerprints, and DNA details. This is a good idea to crack down on crime, but it can be abused several ways.

1 - you could have your identity taken away, saw it on a film, the powers that be or a criminal could make out you were not who you are because they would be able to change every detail, if the criminal was clever enough of course.

2 - If you loose it, it costs a fortune to replace.

3 - There will be no privacy whatsoever. You would find it hard to do anything against the system as they would have serious tabs on you. This is not a problem if the powers that be are behaving themselves, but what if they don't, what if they impose more and more restrictions on us, take more and more civil liberties away, what then? There will be nothing to stop them because they will have sealed any loopholes. Knowledge is power.

Answer 5

The pilots who flew the 9/11 planes were listed in the phone book, it wouldn't have made any difference if they had been forced to have ID cards. I think ID cards is another government IT project that will cost billions and will be useless as soon as forgers go into full scale production. Last week it was shown that information on the 'safe' digital passport could be cracked! In the same week as news that microphones are going to be put on CCTV cameras! Anyone feel safer?

Answer 6

He's right about the 100's of thousands refusing id cards do to fear of being put on a federal database. It's a mute point though. Chances are you are already in the system somewhere and all they have to do is cross reference databases. IRS, military, national driver's license, social services, banking, you name it, if you have been a part of any of these systems, you probably would be very easy to track and find.

Answer 7

Most of our details are already known to Government, but not on one publiccomputer, Experian the credit company seems to have just about all this already.
You will not be able to get credit, pay bills or get served without an ID in the future so life will be much harder for refusnicks, so what is the point in holding out ?

Answer 8

the fact that everything we are doing and will be doing in the near future will be documented automatically in your own personal profile on the central government database .Early next year they are going to be puting everyones medical info on the database ,do people realise this?.
it starts with ID cards then its taking dna with out consent ,then face recognition cameras on every corner tracing your every move and constantly adding to your profile in the government central data base ,then its biometric finger scanning everytime you buy everything everywhere you go eventually turning us into a cashless society in which you use your finger to pay for everything all numbers ,being randomly stopped on the street and being asked to place your finger on there machine being tested in england and wales at the min ,all info going into your profile .
at this point i hear people say ive got nothing to hide .then they want retina scans everytime you enter any building all still adding to your profile and face recognition cameras are not enougth they want to inject a sat nav chip in your arm the size of a tic tac how long before you have no choice in the matter of having it done because the system does not work if all are not part of it .sounds science fiction yet all science fact the micro chip was made by M.I.T and has been implanted on over 100 people this is an rfid chip yet sat technology exists,retina scan technology has been created ,biometric finger scanning yet not hooked up to the governments data base ,is being used in many school librarys and cafeterias to precondition this generation,its normal,the guinea pigs if you will ,and face recognition in early stages in the public is at the right standard to be implemented as part of the new world orders way of enslaving us. when it happens and you dont want to be part of this society you have to way up if you want to live in the wilderness or go along with being enslaved .this is gonna happen in years not decades.and all ive said isnt even half of it click on this link http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4839556520925774502&q=suspect+nation its a documentary that was on channel 4 last week ,this programme only really tells half the story yet if you dont know anything about this ,its eye opening stuff.

if you want to go further and realise why there actually doing this click on this link
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terrorstorm heres the info about all this and why its time to be informed or be a zombie you cant say the info wasnt put in fron of you.laters

if refusing this makes me a "refusenik" id rather be that than a zombie .

Answer 9

You will be able to refuse an ID card initially because it will first be voluntary as a way of sneaking it in without a confrontation
However, your will not be able to function without it in any way that you did before.
The govt will give banks ,all govt bodies,shops etc incentives for demanding them.
On this basis , most ppl will go and buy one, making you look like an outsider.
Its a shame that most like minded ppl wont be opposing it and refusing to accept.
When you have been forced by circum stance to go and buy one, the govt will claim success in that you took it voluntarily.
It is the ultimate orwellian nightmare.
The ppl who voted in this tyrannical monster will rue the day

Answer 10

In view of the fact that the government as no idea how many people are in the UK I for one cannot see a problem.between the governments incompetence and the already over stretched police force I would think you could live for many years without ever being properly challenged.