Christians & atheists?

Question

the more I look at life, the more I see everything depends on the free will alone and not your connection with God. if I look at the people I know who are truly happy, these are all athesists, not deeply religious people. the religious people I know, are always struggling.

how do you explain, for instance, that everything works out for a truly selfish person.

I don't have a specific question, I just wanted to talk to you about this a little bit.

people succeed if they rely on themselves (the concept of free will). they don't need to be moral/"good".

thanx

nope! I wasn't referring to atheists as being selfish. i just mentioned it.

Answer 1

The sinful may seem 2 be happy now, but wait 4 judgment day! ;) And seriously, most folks who were thought 2 be evil & happy, are really unhappy inside and thus evil on the outside..

Answer 2

How can anyone judge who is truly happy? I know I can't. Several times in my life I have known people who seemed happy, had social status, wealth, friends, family and smiled a lot. They had good senses of humor and performed all the duties in their lives with seeming pleasure. People enjoyed being around them. Then suddenly and without notice, they killed themselves. I have learned that I cannot judge someone's insides by their outsides. As to your question. I see no reason an Atheist can't be happy. I see no reason a Christian can't be sad, troubled, or miserable. Do you think Jesus was happy when they crucified him? The Bible says he sweat blood in the garden as he worried about his awful fate. That is a sign of EXTREME stress. John the baptist was beheaded. I doubt that was a pleasant experience for him. There is much misery in this life. My personal success or failure does not prove or disprove the existance of God. My favorite prayer is the prayer of St. Francis. You should read about that guys life. Yet out of his misery came a beautiful expression of selfless love and devotion to his God through service to others. I choose for my life here on Earth to be about more than mere happiness. I seek an understanding of the order of things, a purpose to all existance. Those are spiritual matters. To be truly atheist is to deny the existance of spirit. For me that would be an empty life. I do not have all the answers, nor will I ever have them, but I enjoy the journey. Peace to you.

Answer 3

You are looking at the life that is here today and gone tomorrow, just as the person who relies on himself instead of God to carve out a mortal existence.
Without allowing yourself to be guided by God and be moral, then what seems to be getting ahead for a selfish person now is actually falling behind in spiritual progress, and heaven can never be realized without progress. So, you have to make a choice on which side of the fence to jump. You can be spiritually dead and seek vanity as a life goal, or you can follow the ideas and feelings God puts in your heart.

Answer 4

Atheists are not necessarily immoral, nor are selfish people necessarily adverse to being altruistic.
An intelligent and selfish person would still be altruistic towards others because they would want the same from others. Many things can only be achieved with cooperative efforts and mutually beneficial social interactions. A "truly selfish" (yet intelligent) person would recognize the benefit to be derived from altruism. You say one needn't be moral to succeed, and this is true, but an immoral person only succeeds at the expense of others. Such a person cannot derive the benefits of cooperative ventures and integrate effectively in society. They deprive themselves and others by bringing down those they interact with.
Atheism is "without theism" not "without morals." Everyone has a moral sense which they rely on that is independent of religion. Most religious people pick and choose which rules to obey from their religion, following only the the ones that seem good and applicable to today's society. Christian husbands today do not stone their wives to death for adultery for instance. I think most Christians aware of this rule would choose not to follow it, not mainly because of the legal consequences, but mainly because they know better due to their moral sense. Atheists simply rely on their moral sense and moral philosophies rather than iron rules laid out for them by religion.

I think one source of the perceived happiness of atheists is the lack of fear of the Big Spycam in the Sky. Another may be the source of wonderment & awe that scientific knowledge can bring that many religious people (fundamentalists in particular) are ignorant of. Another factor may be that religious people expect a life after death, which lessens the perceived importance of this life. To atheists, this is all we have, and we should make the most of it.

You say "people succeed if they rely on themselves". This is a given. One cannot rely on say, God, to help them succeed. You can pray for a winning lottery ticket all you like, but it won't increase your chances of winning.

Also, you are speaking of your own experiences. There are many theists and atheists who are both happy and unhappy, for any number of reasons. That you have mostly met happy atheists and struggling theists is not a pattern that holds universally.

Answer 5

Well, to start free will does not exist. How can free will exist in a restricted environment? I cannot will myself to run 65mph. I cannot will myself to win $1,000,000. If you believe in choice, then life could at most be a gamble. I personally don't even believe in choice. Our choices are shaped, first by our parents teachings, then by a combination of learning experiences. We only act to bring about a conclusion that is in our best interest based on our past experiences. No person would act to harm themselves. Like robots, we our main program is self-preservation. This program can only be over-rode by one other program: The preservation of a loved one; which is directly related to self-preservation through grief. Nobody wants to grieve over the loss of a loved one and if you do not believe you can live with the grief then you may risk your health for that person.

In saying that everything works out for a truly selfish person you are making an illogical argument. In some cases a truly selfish person may acquire material wealth because they hoard wealth and would probably work harder than most to acquire it. A truly selfless person would probably not acquire much material wealth because they would spend more time sharing their wealth. However, a truly selfish person would probably not acquire a network of friends, whereas a selfless person probably would. Also, Even for a selfish person the acquisition of material wealth is as much of a gamble as it is for a selfless one.

In regards to your last statement: People succeed when they rely on other people. Without other people, we are nothing. Morality and good are really empty concepts as they are not clearly defined. Moral and good are conditional and free will cannot exist in a universe of cannots.

Answer 6

you sound like you`re speaking from a very limited experience.
free will IS your connection with God. that free will is your ability
to call on the power of truth or reject it. you have some people
in religion so caught up in dogma they miss God and his eternal
truths, than you have some some atheists who don`t believe
in God because of dogma and all the garbage pushed on people
but live according to God`s will through free will, that `s choice !

Answer 7

I think you have been meeting the wrong people.

I know "religious" people who conduct their lives in accordance with their faith and beliefs, and are Generally very happy. (All of us have moments of sadness.) I also know many with No faith and things are certainly not "hunky-dory" for them.
In fact truly selfish persons often have to send a lot of energy fulfilling their wants or needs and finding someone to blame their personal misfortunes on.

Happiness comes from within.

Answer 8

Although I am an atheist myself I would disagree that the faithless are more likely to be successful. I know many religious and atheistic folks who are very happy and successful.

What matters is personal drive and ability, not faith.

Answer 9

First, as an atheist, I'm a bit offended at your implication that atheists aren't moral/"good". I consider myself to be very morally grounded- not out of fear of a god, but out of respect for my fellow man.
Secondly, to answer your question, atheists will tend to be more successful because they live in the present world, not in preparation for some future existence that isn't coming.

Answer 10

i read once a poem by the German poet Schiller, can't remember it's name and content, but the idea was that there is no God, but if the faith makes you happy, then believe, but there will be no reward and no after life; and if you don't believe, then live life to the fullest. so, atheists may seem happier because they enjoy THIS life, because they know there won't be another one