How many conservative Christians have you ever REALLY talked to instead of condemning as bigots?

Question

I'm shocked, dismayed, and frankly heart broken by the angry insults and put-downs from a group who constantly screams for tolerance. I'm reading tremendous intolerance of conservative Christian groups who don't agree with your sexuality. In my personal circles, I've never heard anyone talk about "fearing" homosexuality (as used in the term homophobe) like it was a disease that would spread. I've never heard anyone say
I HATE gays (lesbians, bis, etc.) I've never even heard it implied. I just wonder how much of your (collectively) anger is aimed at the distortions depicted in the media or perhaps isolated incidents with people who really don't know or want to share the love of Christ. What I'm reading are gross misrepresentations, overgeneralizations, and a very similar intolerance you collectively complain about.

Answer 1

Joanna,
You ask a genuinely thoughtful and, I think, respectful question. You deserve a likewise, respectful answer. I don't know your age, so I can't determine how much experience you may have talking about or hearing different views on the subject of people's sexual orientation. I've had many years of listening to the rantings of religious conservatives (granted, usually through the media) who have at various times claimed that: gays deserved AIDS as it is God's punishment for immoral behavior; gays and lesbians should not be allowed to teach school, providing a negative role model for kids; homosexuality is sinfully perverted, no different than pedophilia, or any number of other criminal behaviors; public signs of affection between same sex partners is somehow more disgusting and socially aberrant than straight PDA's; etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

If gay people and those who know, love and support them and their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have a hard time having a "talk" with religious conservatives (Christian or otherwise) it may be because there often seems to be a condescending, 'holier than thou' attitude to these discussions. We're told that "I love homosexuals, but hate their lifestyle", or "God made us all equal, but we must overcome our urges to sin"! Ugh, it's depressing, frustrating and frankly insulting coming from someone who isn't gay and hasn't lived through the threats, intimidation and sometimes physical violence perpetrated on gay people.

We sometimes feel like the 'last acceptable minority' to single out to disparage and scapegoat. Sorry, Joanna, but you asked the question, and I want you to know the answer from my perspective. I'm a spiritual person, who believes deeply in my connection to God, the divine, and it's awfully offensive to have to hear people with no greater moral compass than I, and often I think, much less, offer pronouncements on my soul's fate.

That you've "never heard anyone say 'I HATE gays'...", doesn't sound very convincing to me, I'm afraid. It does speak volumes about 'how' we hear what we hear, and what we 'want' to hear at times. Trust me, it's being said, in many ways subtle, sometimes with sweet, sweet kind tones.....but make no mistake about it, the intention IS there.

I wish we could have had this discussion in person; I certainly don't mean to offend you, and I hope I don't come across that way, but I do emphatically want to stress that when you, or anyone talks to a gay person about their life, lifestyle, etc. you are treading on something so fundamental, so private, and so much about who they are as a person, that you can't help but stir their deepest feelings.

Answer 2

First of all, I have had conservative Christian friends. Few people actually say "I hate" or "I'm afraid". But when you look at the reasoning behind some of their viewpoints, and there's no logica involved whatsoever, that implies that they are based on a more emotional reaction; the hate and fear that is socially conditioned into every child in our society. And, before you go crying victim, keep in mind that while you might get called nasty names sometimes, no one is actively trying to pass legislation to strip you of rights. Nor have you been systematically denied rights in the past. Nor do you need to worry about being beaten to death because of our "dislike" for you. I have yet to hear of even one gay person who's taken it that far, but I know of SEVERAL homophobes and heterosexists who have. (Bigotry doesn't end with homophobia; heterosexism is a much broader word that is probably more applicable to situations in which many people would say "homophobe").

The "intolerance" on our side is really not so very similar once you look closer.

Answer 3

Don't confuse homophobia with a fear of homosexuality, phobia can also apply to meaning a dislike or intolerance for something. I hate to tell you but if you read a little bit more you may find some questions like the following.

"Do gays know that they are going to burn in hell?"

"God created you so why do you spit in his face with your sexual immorality?"

"What do you think of gay "people"?" Like somehow we aren't really people.

"Do bi people have sex with goats and other animals too?"

You will also see answers like:

"It's sick and wrong"

"I wouldn't want you teaching my kid"

"Homosexuals are spitting in God's face"

"God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve"

There are others. By saying we all complain about this is also doing that whole over generalization thing you keep talking about. I don't mind if people don't agree with me, I only get mad when they make assumptions about my character based on my sexuality.

You might want to look again, it's true that some gays have become far to anti-Christian because of these things but homophobia is still very common. Oh and I HAVE heard people say, "I HATE gays and lesbians", quite often. A teacher of mine got his car keyed recently because of his sexual orientation. Just this morning a group of people were talking about how "queers" weren't even people, and how Jesus was gonna take care of all of us "deviants".

Answer 4

The reason for the hostility you are noticing is that conservative Christians use their poltical power to try and control others. People have a right to live their lives without fittiing into a specific, and very limiting, set of expectations.

Whose right is it to judge for others how they should live and love?

It's really interesting to me, as a progressive theologian, that so many people who claim to follow Christ don;t seem to notice how he treated people. Jesus lived at a time when the Roman Empire made everyone;s life a living hell. Jesus, like most Jews of the time, was a member of an oppressed group. He lived and worked among the poor not to be charitable, but because he was one of them. He preached resistance to an unjust system. This is what got him killed.

I think it's really sad that a message of hope and healing for all people has become so distorted and is used to harm and disempower so many on this planet.

P.S. Did you know that there are lots of religious scholars, even ministers, who believe that Jesus himself might have been gay. Seriously, this is for real.

Answer 5

I don't condemn anyone, but I might condemn what they say, when I've heard it.
The only Conservative Christians I've come across have been the ones who come on here and post (in the main) really offensive and judgmental questions and comments. They are bigots. But I don't use that to generalise about ALL Christians; I'm sure some are very nice and open-minded.
I take people as I find them. But if you've seen some of the hate that is posted on here in the name of Christianity, you'd understand why some of us become bitter.

Answer 6

Several! In fact, my best friend is a devout Christian who believes homosexuality to be a sin. However, she is respectful and kind and open-minded while sticking to her moral guns. Anybody similar doesn't get my condemnation, although I'll talk their ear off trying to persuade them otherwise in polite debate.

People who aren't respectful and who use their own insults and degrading talk for no purpose are the ones that I believe to be bigots. Although I don't think I've ever insulted or put down anyone- I prefer to ignore them or try to educate them.

Answer 7

Should we tolerate the intolerant? No. Especially not as long as rights are being revoked from any group of people. And indeed, we should not overgeneralize. Not all Christians, or even Conservative Christians are intolerant.

Answer 8

do you actually read the anti-gay posts in here? my entire family are devout pentacostal, so i definately talk to christians. of course y'all dont admit its a disease you just use the bible to excuse your intolerance, love the sinner not the sin. you have no right to decide how we should feel. there are beautiful loving tolerant christians, but that is a minority. anyone who uses the term ****** or queer in a derogatory manner is by definition a homophobe...........now have you ever heard those terms? this is not a personal attack towards you, i think you're very young and naive. the difference in our approaches is that christians dont honor our choice to live our life openly and free as God intended, we have no problem with being christian, but your views are just that, opinions, not Gods law, or mans for that matter. we deserve the right to exist freely as do you.........meanwhile in the name of God gays are killed, beaten, and ostracised every day. whats christian about that?

Answer 9

Actually, many have been treated in the exact manner in which they presented themselves.
Regardless of what you believe, coming in here with the words sin, lifestyle choice, love the sinner but hate the sin, Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, and all the rest of the usual rhetoric is not an attempt at discussion. Homophobia, contrary to your attempt to deflect the meaning of the word, does not only refer to "fear", it includes hateful disparaging judgmental remarks or harassment. Look it up.

To be tolerated, you MUST act in a tolerable manner. If you do not, you get exactly what you deserve. It's that simple.
Thus endeth the Lesson.

Answer 10

I was raised a conservative Christian, and I'm here to tell you from experience on the inside of the group that Christians are among the most bigoted people on the planet.