Do you agree with Benjamin Franklin's statement that if you sacrifice some liberities for security soon you

Question

will have neither! Does this apply to todays patriot act, and other liberty restricting acts passed under the Bush adminstration?

Answer 1

The policies of the Bush administration are not new:-

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
Hermann Göring(Nazi) 1946 Nuremberg Trials

The US. Government has lied about many wars. The increase of troops in Vietnam was based on an attack in the Tonkin Gulf that never happened. Some say that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor and let it happen to get support to join World War Two. The Spanish-American War (Remember the Maine!) was also based on a hoax.

Not to mention the numerous covert wars that they lied about. Iran-Contra, the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran, Allende in Chile, Arbenz in Guatemala. Also the war in Panama, against someone who was on the payroll of the CIA. Cuba as well. The Bay of Pigs invasion was supported by the CIA, and the people who invaded were trained by the CIA in Guatemala.

As for 9/11 this is the origin of the plan:-
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller: Statement to the Untied Nations Business Council in September 1994

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with other around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." David Rockefellers memoirs (2002)

and this is what Dubya's puppeteers had to say in 2000;-
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor"
Project for the New American Century (2000)


Which brings into question 9/11/(2001), which was never investigated properly, and has been hijacked in order to enact Dubya's agenda and the subsequent illegitimate wars.
The 9/11 documentary Loose Change 2nd edition is available free on Youtube:-

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGEb40o17yE&search=loose%20change%202nd%20edition

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOVWBQKUpsU&search=loose%20change%202nd%20edition

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtV1uxYnu0w&search=loose%20change%202nd%20edition

Decide for yourselves people ;)


I do agree with Dubya on one thing:-

"I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the ugly American is for us to go around the world saying, "We do it this way. So should you."
"I think the United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course."
George W. Bush - 2nd presidential debate Oct 11th 2000

Answer 2

I totally agree. I saw this trend begin with the passing of the Omnibus Terror Act. The ban on assault weapons made little sense to me, seeing that these weapons account for less than 2% of all gun related deaths. The first step of tyranny is to dis-arm the citizens. With the passing of the Patriot Act, basically anyone deemed as a "threat" can be labeled a terrorist. This "threat" seems to even include speech which, under the ACT the President ALONE may not like, and thereby use any government power to silence and/or arrest the speaker. We are well on our way to a one party dictatorship because the line between Republican and Democrat is becoming hard to distinguish. Fear is always the tool for coaxing the people into surrendering their liberty. When you consider that the 9-11 plot was carried out by mujaheddin, which were CIA sponsored in Afghanistan, it appears to have been an inside job. How many CIA operatives ever really leave the service of the CIA? I hope I'm wrong, but I have seen too much (JFK assassination?) to be naive. It seems like what happened at Pearl Harbor (prior US government knowledge to the attack) which was just what they knew they needed for the US citizens to back US involvement in WWII. Remind anyone of the War in Iraq ? We are not as free as we use to be.

Answer 3

Benjamin Franklin, along with all of our Forefathers, were very decent and Bright men!
What Benjamin Franklin was trying to get accross at that time, was to "Fight for our Nations Independance" from "The Crown"- (Britain) and be "FREE" from taxation, or stay bound to "The Crown" and live under "The Liberty & Security" of "The Red-Coats!''
Our Forefathers, Benjamin Franklin included; were smart enough to know that WE all must live under some sort of "Rule & Law!" Or live without "Law & Rule" and you only have "CHAOS!!"
The "Patriot Act" along with every other "Liberty Restricting Act"
that you refer too, are in place now, because of our "Poopy-Attitude!" The Majority(People) No Longer RULE! It is Me,Me, Me, Forget You!!!! One idiots opinion and "Right," outweigh "The Majority's" Rights at any and every expense!
Keep your head in the sand like an ostrich, so the "bad-guy" can shoot a bullet or bomb into your "keyster," just remember that you can't have your cake and eat it too!!!
That is what Benjamin Franklin was trying to tell our Forefathers!!
At least Benjamin Franklin and our Forefathers weren't "Cowards," and would "Fight" and "Support our Troops" 100% who "Bore Arms" to defend, and Die for "The Liberty" of its citizens!! That is why Benjamin Franklin and our Forefathers were and are still "Respected" by the world! Unlike our "Great-Men"(Forefathers), our society and leaders are a bunch of "Cowardly-Liars" that can't commit to a single thing or idea for more than a second; then run away like a "cry-baby," to pout about it!!
Sad indeed, to live like we do today......

Answer 4

Absolutely! I wish I had the exact quote, but I remember the sentiment very well. The problem, you see, is that if you hand over your liberty for the sake of security, then you will not be secure against the increased power of the people supposedly providing your security. The old Germans could tell us a thing or two about that, as could some old and some not-all-that-old Russians. Since this is an international forum, what about it, veterans of the fight for Liberty in those countries? Will you tell us about it?

Answer 5

Yes I agree with that statement. If you allow the government to get away with things that violate other peoples Rights or Liberties soon they will be coming for your Rights and Liberties too. And after all this Home Security stuff I still don't feel any safer. Do any of you?

Answer 6

Totally. For people who are always reminding us about the Founding Fathers, the Repubs certainly do not refect their standards or morality. Franklin must be revolving in his grave over the shenanigans in Washington. Keep in mind that there is a lame duck Congress now. The defeated Repubs haven't left yet and Bush is telling them to push through more Patriot Act legislation before they are done. It's one last step to strip us of our constitutional rights.

Answer 7

Actually, you must give an explanation for your statements at the 2 legislation, on the grounds that you have expressed your opinion, "doing a little paintings and figuring out for oneself" that's, study, would not always "jive" along with your evaluations. The accountability in civil debate rests at the speaker of an opinion to rationally justify it. By the by way of, in WW2 we had been beneath martial regulation and dedicated blameless (jap) residents to attention camps. I suppose you're a casualty of practical pondering on this recognize. I suppose way more involving than those 2 legislation are the typical surroundings of the days that's characterised by way of a loss of engagement, discourse, and highbrow undertaking. I am disgusted by way of the fame of a targeted form of useless and self-serving christianity, fundamentalism, the dominance of social gathering politics, and the manipulate of exact pursuits over the complete political approach. These legislation don't seem to be the rationale of any curbing of liberties, however handiest the indicators of a extra dire health problem threatening the lifetime of our open and loose society.

Answer 8

The government, at every level, passes laws that restrict personal freedoms.

We have been "properly conditioned" to think that many of the laws passed are for "the greater good" although with each law passed we lose just that much more of our innate civil liberties.

When the government stops protecting your freedom and instead grants rights to you that should be your inherently there is something seriously flawed with that system.

Answer 9

It was true then. It is true now. For some people it gets easier to accept the denial of Constitutional Rights to one segment of the population for the "greater good". But no good has ever come of violation of human rights.

Answer 10

The patriot act must go! Write your (new) congressman/woman.