Should caning etc be brought back? What discipline measures are in use now and is discipline too soft?

Question

I am doing this research for university and i have to write it up by friday.

Answer 1

Don't think anyone but the mildly sadistic would welcome a return to the days of the cane.

School measures all centre on detentions / suspensions / exclusions model - a pupil can only be excluded if they have been suspended for a certain number of days in total across the school year.

My family is full of teachers and they all agree in this principle, but say it is too hard to exclude pupils for consistantly poor discipline - maybe you could focus on that as a topic and research some examples locally.

Answer 2

I am a teacher who works with pupils who have behavioural, emotional and social difficulties (secondary school age). As you can imagine I need to maintain good discipline to make sure everyone gets the opportunity to learn (as they are entitled to do.)
I am old enough to remember being hit with a ruler at school and being made to stand in the corner. Other pupils were caned, hit with gym shoes etc etc. Ridicule and humiliation were used routinely.
I hated and detested school with every fibre of my being. I left school as soon as was humanly possible with no qualifications.
Not the best lesson learnt. Never mind.
Forward a few years and I find I am a teacher!
To maintain discipline I use the following measures. I promise you they work.
First I set an example of the behaviour I expect. I am calm, organised, reasonable and fair. I work hard and expect my pupils to do the same. I never raise my voice, insult people or use unacceptable language. I treat people with respect and humanity.
Of course this alone is not enough. Children need to understand boundaries and have them made clear. Rules and consequences are made absolutely clear right at the start.
They are displayed on the wall and I refer to them constantly. If a pupil behaves in a way that is unacceptable I tell them and explain what will happen if they continue. I give them the choice and keep it really simple, they can stop or have a consequence. No negotiation.
If it carries on the consequence happens, everytime, without fail.
As long as I am consistent the children respond. They know where they stand and behave accordingly. I treat them as reasonable, intelligent human beings and that is how they respond. Why wouldn't they?
I would no more hit a child than an adult just as I do not expect to be hit by anyone else. Hitting people, apart from being illegal, is uncivilised behaviour and shows that person does not know how to control his or her feelings appropriately.
Appropriate role modelling, clear boundaries, a consistent and fair approach together with the confidence to know what you expect get results and foster a calm productive learning environment.
Good luck with the assignment.

Answer 3

Being beaten with a bamboo cane is a little severe but, in general, our discipline nowdays is too soft. When I was a child your parents could paddle your butt with their hand or a belt ... so could your friends' parents, your grandparents, the baby-sitter, the school principal, the teachers, and just about anybody else that your parents authorized to discipline you. When you got into trouble away from home, you knew you were going to get it even worse when you got home and that was a HUGE deterrent. Nowdays, we're not allowed to spank our children. If we do, we could face (at the very minimum) an investigation by the child abuse authorities, and (at the very worst) jail time for child abuse. Children nowdays tend to think they're in charge because the parents don't have authority over them. They think they're entitled to everything without the responsibility of earning it. When I was growing up, my parents provided food, shelter, clothing and some entertainment. If I wanted more -- computers, tv's, private phone lines, ect. -- I had to get a job and pay for it. As far as discipline methods being used today, probably the most popular is the "time out". The theory being that you sit the child in the corner for one minute per year of age, to give them time to "think about" what they've done. In my experience with 3 kids and 2 step-kids, the only think they "think about" is ways to get back at you for taking away their fun. Another popular one with older children (8 and up) is grounding. The theory being you remove priviledges until they "earn" them back, and the child is supposed to use adult logic to "think" -- I screwed up and my ____ got taken away. Nope, all they "think" about is how mean the parents are for taking ____ away and how soon it is until they can have it back.

Answer 4

No, it should not. In Scotland we had the tawse - more than once I was given more than the legal maximum (7 strokes was the maximum and I was struck 13 or 14 times by a teacher of dubious character). As long as these implements are wielded by human beings, human weakness will prevail and abuse will soon follow. I found it ironic at the time, that I lived in a society where murderers were released early, criminal adults could not legaly have this punishment inflicted on them, yet children were being struck with weapons. I can understand inflicting corporal punishment on adults who have commited violent offences, but why children?

Answer 5

A good question. If a little hard to answer without too much personal opinion.

For me, hitting children does not teach them anything other than to avaoid being hit. However, I do beleive things have gone too far the other way now and kids are not being shown enough simple discipline.

Due to litigation culture creeping in adults in positions of responsibility are terrified of striking an ignorant child for fear of losing their livelyhood. Now we live under a system of behaviour models that cost a fortune to police and are totally ineffective in reality.

So, yes i think caning should be brought back. Take discipline out of the Lawyers hands and put it into the responsible adults'. We need to stop trying to run society by the lowest common denominator - most kids woiuld be smart enough to avoid it anyway.

Answer 6

I posed a similar question a couple of days back and one Argentinian teacher replied. Apparently in her school, if your name gets entered in "The Book" three times, you have to come to school with your parents!
I think that is fantastic!
Imagine sitting next to your mom and dad all day long! There can be no greater humiliation.

Answer 7

Damned right it should be brought back. There is no discipline now, so how can it be too soft?

Answer 8

No. If you are trying to combat violence in schools the worst thing you can do is legitimise it by making it an acceptable form of punishment.

Answer 9

An official report which was published last week pointed out a few home truths which really should have the people and the government of the UK thoroughly ashamed. And although unofficially we could presume to know the outcome anyway, to have the results set out before you in black and white is truly worrying.



I refer to the report which says Britain has the worst teenagers in Europe. In separate polls carried out for separate misdemeanours such as smoking, drinking, fighting, vandalism, pregnancies, etc., British yobs, sorry, teenagers, came top or nearly top on every list. Anti-Social Behaviour Orders (ASBO?s) are being issued to wrong-doers in order to shame them, but apparently they are having the opposite effect, with young thugs now proudly announcing they have ASBO?s as if they are some kind of badge of honour. So who?s to blame?



The number of antisocial behaviour orders in England and Wales has soared by a massive 11%. Yet Martin Narey, who left the department to run children's charity Barnardo's, said too many youngsters were being locked up as a result of the controversial behaviour orders.

Are ASBO?s the right solution to tackle antisocial activity, or have the Government got it wrong?



As what happens all the time, ASBO?s work for some but not for others. Then the press gets hold of a spectacular failure and trumpets it as the normal thing. Sensationalising everything to sell more copies. Meanwhile, answers to why a fourteen-year-old boy would stab his mate in the chest go unanswered. Older people get more scared and the problem gets more inflated. Ever since the mid-seventies (I?m guessing) not one single Government has come up with an adequate solution. We have had them all; short-sharp-shocks to Safaris. Are we any better off? No! The natural pursuit of wealth instilled in all of us will eventually leave an underclass of people who will, by any means possible, keep up with ?those who have? by stealing from them.



Proper education for all is the only answer I can think of. Until we have a Government who, despite the problem of cost, invests in the proper teaching methods, things will go down hill. In fact, I think the question of ?can we afford to educate the young?? should be represented more realistically as ?can we afford NOT to educate them??



To me, it boils down, once again, to the inept Government we have in power in Britain right now. Only last week I read of a foreign rapist being allowed into the UK, only to rape and kill again. And all the young gangs of yobs and thugs are interested in are high hedges, overly loud I-Pod music on trains and the likes.

What a set of utterly useless tosspots they are!

Tony Blair is an actor, John Prescott is really a lump of lard in a suit who has sleeping sickness during debates in The House, Patricia Hewitt is a saboteur - she wiped out manufacturing and now she's going for the health service and I could go on at length....



Time for a few sackings I think. They are a waste of time.



Why is it so difficult for those in power to realise that criminals should be punished properly on their 1st offence? ASBO's are just the government?s way of avoiding the real issues of social poverty. We got all the ?tough on crime? rubbish but still nothing but mealy mouth talk and bits of paper, which are a joke.



A lot of these teenagers with ASBO's and behaviour issues have more than likely lacked attention from parents. This lack of attention results in them showing off to friends to get this attention, and that?s what leads to low level crime such as criminal damage, graffiti, etc. I believe many of these youths, joining the army (where they would get plenty of attention) would change their lives forever. A lot of these youths aren?t bad people. The problem is they have never been shown respect from their parents so they do not know how to give it back.



Many of these kids are bored. If you ask them why they are hanging around on street corners, and they will reply "there?s nothing else to do." This is because they have never been shown what to do by their parents. Kids these days can?t make their own entertainment as my generation did when we were younger. Perhaps, in my youth, I?d be considered ?immature? for my age, preferring to kick a ball around a park than drink cider and smoke marijuana in it.



It seems to me that the more we progress with technology, the further we get away from the qualities that truly make us human beings. More and more we think with our heads without involving or including our hearts, which makes us more and more selfish.

It is the adults that need education, and not in a humiliating way but in a tough love, but compassionate way. Yes, we should be accountable and made to feel and take responsibility for our actions and behaviour, but realistically, why should we expect the individual to behave morally when the Government or members of Government, the very people that "set the bar", continue to behave in immoral ways and hide behind the excuse that it is legal. The very thing that is legal is the thing that causes most of the problems. Ask any police officer (and I have!) and they will tell you that the majority of ASBO?s are caused by the drunk and disorderly.



Don't get me wrong I am not saying that it should be banned (far from it, I love a drink myself) but why should we expect people to behave responsibly on something that is mind altering and that brings out the worst in people when they pass their limit? Alcohol, when all is said and done, is a drug, possibly the worst, and whether legal or not it has the same result as the illegal! As long as we focus on money over people we will sink further and further into degeneration. Like the Beatles said "All We Need Is Love", but love comes in many forms, some can be quite tough!!!! Tony Blair and the privileged need to remember in time the neighbourhoods that they live in can become as degenerated as the worst of the worst unless there is some common sense involved, without ego and selfishness!!!!!!!



The problem is the way that we as society are bringing up our children nowadays. As a child I would never have dreamed of back chatting my parents; I?d have got a 'thick ear' as my mum used to call it! I knew where the boundaries were, my parents knew that they were the parents and the ones in charge, and I never questioned that! I never would have dreamed of questioning it! Yes, of course we all had our moments of playing up, doing what we weren?t supposed to, but we were clenching all the while, waiting for the wrath of the parents!


Parents need to stand up to their children and start acting like responsible adults! You are the parent, and as the elder you have more experience and as the parent you have the right and responsibility to teach your children how to behave.


Stop blaming TV, friends, and outside influences. All our parents had it; they were just strong enough to stand up for what they believed in and had enough backbone to tell their children NO when it was necessary! You as a parent, are after all, the adult and they are the children. And they should be taught to respect their elders, as we were.



ASBO?S: Ha! That?s a bloody laugh. Try getting an ASBO slapped on someone. So much red tape! And that?s IF you can get anyone to listen to you in the first place.
And if one is issued, what does it do? Nothing. A slap on the wrist, just for it all to start again.



It?s the upbringing, both at home and in general that seems to me to be the cause. When we were kids, we never needed some fancy named probiotic drink to keep our immune systems working. I still remember eating fish and chips out of the newspaper, which was great until some smart **** decided it was bad for us. I remember when you could have an accident and not have some parasitic legal whiz persuading you to sue somebody for compensation.


I remember when going from door to door with some people from the church singing Carols at Christmas wasn't actually against the law. And if you wanted to, you could fit a dimmer switch in the kitchen without worrying if the police would be round in the morning.



When Wings was a Paul McCartney band as opposed to an underwear extension.

When a clip round the ear was often the end of a young crime spree as opposed to the beginning of a decent policeman's ruin.



When everyone was innocent until proven guilty.

And what IS an ASBO? It's another loony idea from Dictator Blair. Rather than punish somebody for being a pain to society in general, let's give them a badge. (A bit like the scouts really).

It's a fundamental law in the animal kingdom that we learn by avoiding pain. If we do something and it hurts, we learn not to do it. These days of course, learning by pain avoidance is translated as "all that does is to generate violence".


The fact is that children learn that something is unacceptable if doing it hurts them. I have never smacked my son (who is almost six), I?ve never needed to. But some children DO need a smack to get them back in line when they are wandering off the straight and narrow and a firm admonishment isn?t doing the trick. Most of today's anti social behaviour can be traced back directly to the anti-corporal punishment and no-smacking brigade. These nutters always equate smacking with thrashing. "If you smack your child when it misbehaves your are teaching it that violence is right." - Absolute bollocks.

Simple pain avoidance. A few light smacks between the ages of two and five, only as a very last resort and when needs be, and you have a decent kid.

The ones getting the ASBO?s are still working on the basis of: "I can do whatever I want. What you gonna do to stop me?"


And if the answer to that is "Send you on an all expenses paid adventure holiday", what sort of message is that for the decent kids???

It seems to me that there are too many people in the world today who want to control the lives of people who are happier than they are. And they?re dragging us deeper and deeper into the gutter