A man has recently been given a criminal record and fined £200 for putting an envelope in a recycling bin. Yet the latest guidelines say that if muggers and burgerlers say sorry they will not be punished! Have our senior lawyers completely lost the plot?
2006-10-28 19:57:30 · 9 answers · asked by Grannygrump 3 in Politics & Government ➔ Law & Ethics
The law is an antiquated *** that gets changed as and when the government feels like removing some of our freedoms, but punishment is a little more difficult to fit to the crime. Our punishments are the way they are because politicians think they know what's best for us.
Do we set our punishments to match the crime or to deter others from committing similar crimes? It's not as simple as you might think, read the following...
A car double parks (blocks the road for all other traffic) and a fire engine responding to an emergency call can't get to the fire because the road is too narrow to pass, it can't reverse because of all the traffic behind. 2 children die in the fire because although another fire engine got there it had to come from a lot further away.
Should the person who double-parked the car be charged with manslaughter? Yes? No? Even though 2 children died as a result of that persons actions?
The law says no because the crime the driver committed wasn't related to nor caused the fire, so he'd get a 30 or 40 pound parking fine. How does that deter the next driver who can't find a parking space from doing the same?
OK lets look at another: a proven murdered should always be killed because we agree with the principle of "a life for a life" (there are fundamental flaws with this principle i.e. you get the wrong person and they're still found guilty).
So, what about a drunk driver killing 3 people in an oncoming car when he swerved due to loosing control of his car?
An 18 year old driver speeding in a town can't stop in time and kills an old man crossing the road.
Should they be executed? Neither of them is innocent, they both chose to do what they did, the drunk driver knew he would be driving home and still went drinking and the speed limit is there for a reason the 18 year old just thought he could cope with doing 50 because he is a inexperienced fool.
I would suggest that if both were executed there would be an immediate drop in driving related deaths, virtually nobody would break the speed limit and drink driving would no longer be an issue.
But that makes driving related deaths comparable to murder; do we want to live in a society where we execute an 18 year old for being an idiot?
The man fined for putting an envelope in a recycling bin: (a very "SUN" style headline by the way) you haven't given us very much information but...
If he had been previously told not to put that envelope type in the recycle bin and the envelope was mixed with a load of paper (25 tons) that was subsequently unusable because his envelope contaminated it is the 200 pound fine unreasonable? The cost of collecting that load, the cost of dumping it all in landfill, the cost of cutting down trees to replace the 25 tons of paper that couldn't be recycled, the cost of processing the paper pulp, transporting it, would that be more or less than 200 pounds?
It's a good deterrent and although I agree it doesn't appear to fit the crime, but that's because none of us view recycling as important as we should. That you compare it to a burgerler who says sorry and gets let off just shows how bad our courts are with dealing the criminals we want to be punished. Which in turn shows how bad our politicians are at representing us, the electorate.
Personally I fall in the personal responsibility camp, if you kill someone through your actions you pay the price, if you can't face that punishment don't do the crime.
Were I ruling Britain I would introduce laws that reflect responsibility, and then leave it to the individual to decide how they chose to act. Oh yes I'd also take 1 pound per 1000 earned to pay for a lot more prisons because for the first few years they would be full to overflowing. But then I'd also have prisoners doing mindless hard physical labour rather than watching TV because that would be a better deterrent for them as well.
I don't know because I wasn't born but I do believe that generally people had more respect for their neighbours, communities and townsfolk 50 years ago than they have today, that in part was because they had a genuine fear of the punishments they would receive if they broke the law, so in simple terms: fear = deterrent.
We are all paying the price for the rise in liberal views and the idea that a bad start to life removes responsibility for individual actions: no fear = no deterrent.
2006-10-28 21:12:37 · answer #1 · answered by MrClegg 4 · 2⤊ 0⤋
I've just realised something - if you can afford to pay a fine for something trivial - say littering - then you're more likely to be prosecuted than some young, unemployed burglar - who is probably on the dole and therefore unable to pay a fine.
The government is a money making machine and it will choose the easiest route to make it, and if that means persecution by prosecution then that's what they'll do.
ALL politicians are liars and thieves.
2006-10-28 20:13:56 · answer #2 · answered by Phlodgeybodge 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Putting an envelope in a recycling bin?
You really report this as a criminal act?
What was in the envelope?
Did this man said he was sorry?
Who are you trying to protect?
2006-10-28 20:12:59 · answer #3 · answered by Daystar 2 · 0⤊ 1⤋
yes its not perfect but are we hearing the whole story there must be more to it than your stating recycling bin is municipal law don't think your given a crime record for that one a fine yes but a criminal record don't think so know some judges should be judged but mostly its a fair system
2006-10-28 20:41:54 · answer #4 · answered by bobonumpty 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Sometimes think we don't have a justice sytem! Until our judges start living in the real world and get a good dose of common sense nothing will change. That and a government with a bit of backbone to stand up to the p.c do-gooders.
2006-10-28 20:29:23 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
It's turning inside out. Soon innocents will be in prisons for their own protection and criminals will be outside.
2006-10-28 21:21:18 · answer #6 · answered by angelcake 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
its crazy i got fined for doing 33mph in a 30mph zone and 3 points on my license were added that police constable who was caught doing 135 on motorway just got told off.. grrrrrr make me angry o no I'm turnin into the incredible bulk he he lol good question....!!!!!!!!
2006-10-28 20:12:00 · answer #7 · answered by chris b 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Fully agree with MrCleg. Spot on there.
2006-10-28 22:54:40 · answer #8 · answered by hakuna matata 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
the system has gone crazy people are being allowed to get away with horrible crimes and for something petty they get a stupid sentance or penalty.
2006-10-28 20:08:17 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋