2006-10-27 15:54:36 · 2 answers · asked by sondysa 1 in Education & Reference ➔ Words & Wordplay
Portuguese term or phrase: postagem/carta comercial
English translation: will be sent by Post ... Business rate
2006-10-27 15:57:20 · answer #1 · answered by Just Bein' Me 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Official Translator Brasil - Printable Version
-Messenger Plus! Live Forums (http://www.msghelp.net)
+--Forum: Messenger Plus! Live Extension (/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+---Forum: Translation (/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Thread: Official Translator Brasil (/showthread.php?tid=46200)
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Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 06-12-2005 at 08:40 PM
Mr. Patchou:
I am medical doctor in Brazil but I am too Systens Analyst like hobby. I would like to be an Official Translator of Messenger Plus! for the Portuguese from Brazil.
I would like to remind you that the Portuguese from Brazil is very different from the Portuguese from Portugal.
I will show for you some example:
Brasil Portugal
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Arquivo Ficheiro
Senha Palavra-Passe
Restaurante Casa de Pasto **
Baixar Transferir
Ativada Activa *
Ação Acção *
Contato Contacto *
* Many words in the Portuguese from Portugal have a "c" more that doesn't exist in the Portuguese from Brazil.
** "Casa de Pasto" in Brazil mean Place where horses eat!
I think that Brazil deserves a correct translation for native language.
I have posting translations of the original file in English in the forum.
Please, how should I proceed?
Thank you,
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Tochjo on 06-13-2005 at 08:21 AM
You might be interested in reading TRANSLATOR PORTUGUÃS BRASIL and Tradução para o Português do Brasil v3.54.132
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 06-13-2005 at 07:08 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by Tochjo
You might be interested in reading TRANSLATOR PORTUGUÃS BRASIL and Tradução para o Português do Brasil v3.54.132
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Thank you Tochjo, but I already read these post. It is exactly for this that I am offering my translation and explaining the differences among the two languages.
To purpose: As I should proceed to become an Official Translator (already has 2 months that I wait for an answer of Patchou...)
Best Regards.
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by CookieRevised on 06-13-2005 at 09:06 PM
Without dissing everything up, and without getting into politics, etc I must say that American is also not "allowed" and it has also many words written differently then in English. Yet both language are also official and both languages are also spoken by millions of people...
If both Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese would be officialy in Messenger Plus!, then there will also be many other languages (Belgian Dutch, Holland Dutch, American English, some different Spanish languages, etc...) Of course there is nothing which prevent you from making a translation and posting it on the forum so people can use it if they like...
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
already has 2 months that I wait for an answer of Patchou
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mail him again... probably got lost between all the spam...
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 06-15-2005 at 07:27 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Without dissing everything up, and without getting into politics, etc I must say that American is also not "allowed" and it has also many words written differently then in English. Yet both language are also official and both languages are also spoken by millions of people...
If both Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese would be officialy in Messenger Plus!, then there will also be many other languages (Belgian Dutch, Holland Dutch, American English, some different Spanish languages, etc...) Of course there is nothing which prevent you from making a translation and posting it on the forum so people can use it if they like...
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
already has 2 months that I wait for an answer of Patchou
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mail him again... probably got lost between all the spam...
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Thank´s CookieRevised, but...
If exist official translations of Espanol (Espana) e Espanol (Latino) - no there is any difference among them - because it cannot have official translation for Portuguese of Brazil that is very different from the Portuguese of Portugal?
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Choli on 06-15-2005 at 10:05 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
If exist official translations of Espanol (Espana) e Espanol (Latino) -
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a lot of time ago, when Plus 2.0 was about being translated, Patchou and some regular members of the forums then, decided which languages would be the official ones. At that moment, I wasn't a regular member here, so I can't tell you the reasons of why patchou decided to add both spanish languages. however, I 'm sure that there are (or there were) enough reasons to do so, therefore they should stay like until now. (and IMO, people shouldn't compare them with other similar languages (both protugueses, both english, valencian and catalan, etc...)
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
no there is any difference among them -
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of course there are... and of course a latin spanish person is able to understand spanish from spain, the same as I (from spain) understand spanish latino....
I think it's the same as a person living in USA understand a person living in London, even if they speak "different" "languages". The same for your portuguese.
Anyway, as Cookie said, you are free to translate plus and post the translation here. People who like your translation will download and use it; and if there are quite downloads, Patchou may add your language as an official one.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 07-08-2005 at 03:59 PM
Ok, Choli, thank you for this answer. Thank you too for yours polite posts. I go lowly continue post my translations in this forum to resident in Brazil can download the file.
I wait that Patchou sensitize by Brazilian peoples and include my translation in Setup of Messenger Plus!... After all, in what the program would worsen? To the opposite, a new translation would just increase the software!
Please, consider this, Mr. Patchou!
Thank you for all.
Dr. Heyder
Download my translation file for Brasilian Portuguese of Messenger Plus! version 3.54.132 in http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=45283
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Edu115 on 08-11-2005 at 12:49 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
Brasil Portugal
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Restaurante Casa de Pasto **
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WHAT??!!! I'm portuguese, and i've never EVER heard of "Casa de Pasto" with a meaning of restaurant...
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 08-30-2005 at 12:37 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by Edu115
WHAT??!!! I'm portuguese, and i've never EVER heard of "Casa de Pasto" with a meaning of restaurant...
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Prezado Edu115:
Independente de uma palavra ou outra que eu possa estar errado, você sabe bem que existem grandes diferenças entre o português de Portugal e o português do Brasil. Eu gosto dos Portuguêses. Aliás, eu tenho muitos amigos que moram aà em Portugal. Assim como você que é Português, eu que sou Brasileiro, também gostaria de ter uma tradução adequada do Messenger Plus! Eu apenas gostaria que o Sr. Patchou presenteasse o povo brasileiro com uma tradução legÃtima deste grande complemento para o MSN Messenger que é o Messenger Plus!
Grande abraço,
Dr. Heyder
Baixe minha tradução para o português do Brasil aqui:
http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=46200
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Dear Edu115:
Independent of a word or another that I can be wrong, you know that exist great differences between the Portuguese from Portugal and the Portuguese from Brazil. I like Portuguese peoples. In fact, I have many friends that live in Portugal. As well as you that is Portuguese, I that am Brazilian, would also like to have an appropriate translation of Messenger Plus! Just I would like Mr. Patchou to give a present the Brazilian people with a legitimate translation of this great complement for MSN Messenger that is Messenger Plus!
Best Regards,
Dr. Heyder
Download my translation for portuguese from Brazil here:
http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=46200
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Mr. Patchou:
Até agora, o arquivo com minha tradução do Messenger Plus! para o português do Brasil já foi baixado 450 vezes. Isso ainda é pouco para presentear o povo brasilieiro com uma tradução legÃtima?
Pense um pouco: em quê o seu programa irá perder? Em nada! Ao contrário, será mais um idioma disponÃvel no seu software!
Dr. Heyder
Up to now, the file with my translation of Messenger Plus! for the Portuguese from Brazil it was already downloaded 450 times. This is little to give a present the people brasilieiro with a legitimate translation?
Think a little: in something your program will lose? Nothing! To the opposite, it will be one more available language in your software!
Thank´s,
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 08-30-2005 at 01:59 PM
Domain Name and Languages
These are the current language stats. Quite some time ago, languages who dropped under 1000 users were pruned from the official package. I'm not sure about how many udownloads would be required to add that translation to the package, but surely at least more than 1000.
Also the stats should be treated and monitored more accurately by the server administrators.
Patchou pruned a number of languages because they wasted an excessive space in the package and some seemed not to be used. Still all these can be downloaded from your localized page at http://www.msgplus.net
And a personal advice: Instead of aggresively advertising your translation, you may make a translation that proves for itself to be worth the addition.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Gonçalo F. on 08-30-2005 at 11:28 PM
Hello there.
This is a matter that should not be discussed in such a superficial way.
To start on, I believe that even KeyStorm, from Spain, noticed that there is no translation for "restaurante" from brazillian to portuguese, because it's the same word on both countries. I felt extremely shocked and offended when you posted "Casa de Pasto" as our translation. I mean, naming restaurant as a cow sty (chiqueiro), or cow granary (celeiro onde as vacas comem)? It's undoubtly a clear hostile attitude and not a mistake as you want us/others to believe. And that's not only because it's obviously wrong, but you are, as you several times claim to be, a medical doctor which leaves me petrified seeing that as such an experienced person, you have so poor knowledge of the portuguese language and country. And I'm not referring to exhaustive knowledge like how many flags we had throughout the history, but at least have the capacity to use common sense to search if the "translation" for restaurant or anything else exists, and if so, if it is so offensive as that one you referred to...
I'm not a doctor, but 2 years away from being an mechanical engineer, if you're so interested in knowing the graduation of those you are talking to, and i assure you i know a great deal about the brazilian language, costumes, history, habits, and also my common sense wouldn't let me post such dramatic and offensive words as yours, anywhere.
Using a very simple document comparing software (http://www.grigsoft.com/wincmp3.htm), it's clear for anyone two things a) the differences are in fact rare and not significant (if you know how to read the language) and b) you didn't make a translation by hand from zero, but adopted and modified the official portuguese one. And I shall explain now.
The differences between our languages are more on the way they’re spoken and less on how they’re written.
For example, words like "contacto", "activar", "actualizar", in brazillian are written "contato", "ativar" and "atualizar" because the tonic syllable (I don’t know if this is the correct way to say this in english, it’s the syllable of every word that is louder that the others) on those words is said with more emphasis in Brazil than in Portugal, and so that's why the "c" disappears in such words when speaking, but must be there in order to be gramatically correct. Anyway, it's presence on those words will definitely not make brazilians don't understand it's meaning.
There's also the difference on the "status" translation, where we have "estado" and you reverted it to "status" again. Well, it's known that in Brazil many words are adapted (or realy are) from the english, like that one could probably be, and I believe that way you can more easily understand what it's referring to, but there are some reasons not to use it, namely a) there's a clear translation, so there's no reason not to translate it, b) the whole translation is supposed to be read by any kind of people, including doctors and children that only know it's mother language and c) the whole translation must be absolutely formal, direct to the point, and in absolute conformity with the grammar (I must also add that our translation is checked by a certified and experienced portuguese teacher apart from the team, so I can honestly tell you that our translation would certainly fit on any iso-certification rules )
Another difference is the "file" translation. We have it as "ficheiro" and you changed it to "arquivo" (archive). Well, obviously "ficheiro" is the most correct way to translate "file". Not only mixing file with archieve is not correct, because they mean different things, but if in some situation we actually need to translate the word "archieve" I think that using the same translation to two different situations, when there's the possibility to have them different, is not wise. And worse, changing everything would let many users confused.
One last difference is the "password" translation. For this word we actually had to search for some opinions before deciding to use "palavra passe". You changed it to "senha", which is also correct and it's even smaller than our final decision, but the reason not to use it is that "palavra passe" is more accurate to the situation, "senha" is not so catchy for first-time users and less experienced users on computres, not to mention that other portuguese software’s use "palavra passe" so we decided to keep the uniformity on this one.
After talking to some brazillian friends, the only actual difference to their way of speaking by looking to our translation is just the "c"s which is, in their own words, "irrelevant".
Your file also has some other minor changes that do not change at all the meaning or the structure of what we had on the Portuguese file, not making it any more understandable than what it already is.
The authenticity of your file is also non existent and fake, which for me and the Portuguese translation team could by itself be the only reason not to declare your file as an authentic brasilian translation. And I mean this because for someone that doesn’t know the language, there’s like 80% of your file that is similar, I mean, it’s the same translation that we did. And no, it’s not, by far, a coincidence. I noticed especially several very difficult parts that were assigned to me on some translation sessions, and I found them in the exact same way on your file. And some others that had to be discussed within the team are also in the very same way. And there are some reasons for almost everything that has the same translation on your file, and it’s not because it’s a coincidence, a) we invested many time reflecting and searching for the best words for each sentence/situation and it would be impossible for you to reach the same conclusions because you don’t master the language, b) you’re a different person, and different persons solve problems in different ways, so if I was someone else probably the final result could be different from what it is now and c) I know that in several lines a brazilian person would suggest doing the translation in a different way, but only in some of them you actually changed the content.
So you copied our work and adapted it to your needs, without even respecting the amount of work we had to solve every translation line, taking the best parts of it and the two or three parts we still are not sure if they will keep translated like that. I do not consider good sense, just not to say something worse, to come here and claim to have done “authentic” work on the file from scratch and willing it to become official. It’s not honest for your consciousness and your country.
Other important fact is the file structure. I don't know if you got to read the translation guidelines (http://files.msgplus.net/data/TranslationGuidelines.doc) because there are some entries that are in violation of some rules, which may led to corruption when loading the file and/or the entries with those errors when windows are opened. One example is: "CurrentLanguageA=Português (Brasil)", if you read the guidelines, you’ll find the mistake here.
Also to mention that this transl... adaptation was made without the care and sensibility that is supposed to, because there's some entries that are bigger than it's supposed to, so they can't be completely read on the respecting windows.
There was, in fact, an official brazilian version on Plus! some years ago, I think around version 2.20. No one here in this forum knows why it suddenly stopped to be updated, but if after all this time there were no claims or demands for its coming back, this is one more proof that our work serves both nations with plenty satisfaction, without complain from any of them. And I can assure you, I can’t proof right now because I don’t have the time for that, that at that time (kinda repetitive!) both translation had a completely different structure. At that time it was in fact an authentic, impartial and unique team work, that obviously had everything correctly translated but anyone could see that there was no rip-off of any of the parts.
The 500 downloads that your file had in the last months is, of course, a number that allows us to reach some accurate conclusions about the opinion of users that come here to get it.
Those downloads do not directly mean that there is in fact people needing your file, because not only there’s the possibility that there are people that always look for a brazilian translation of the softwares they’re using probably without noticing there’s a “portuguese” one lower in the language list, but also there’s the chance that they are actually looking for a brazilian translation (and I don’t think it’s for the needing, but more the curiosity). And even if they need it, when they get into this forum and download your file, I don’t know what do they think about it but I assume they feel pretty neutral about it. Nothing very different from the original Portuguese file is present there. And I say this because on those 500 downloads there wasn’t ever one single person reporting it’s opinion that in fact there are deep (or superficial!), crucial differences between both language files, and so I conclude that adding your file would be, at least, redundant.
Just one last curiosity. There are much more writing differences in American English and British English than in our case. Just by remembering TV series, movies and sports, I can recall dozens of words that mean the same on english and american, but are differently written. For example, in the form of British/American: flat/apartment, tarmac/asphalt, lawyer/attorney, pub/bar, post/mail, note/bill, draw/tie, garden/yard, tyre/tire, catalogue/catalog, theatre/theater, analyse/analyze and the most famous colour/color and license/licence.
There are also many differences on the spelling of past tenses of verbs like dreamt/dreamed, strived/strove, which is a major difference that isn’t even enough to create two English language files, that doesn't happen in the brazilian-portuguese case where you’re only talking about synonyms that are known on both places.
I had said this before and I repeat it again, you didn’t translate this software, you ripped off our work. You are not respecting, and even violating, the devotion we gave to our work and it is not acceptable that you get credited for doing a find/replace job under our file and claiming for its authenticity.
With best regards,
Gonçalo Ferreira
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 08-31-2005 at 12:02 AM
Well thanks for this exhaustie and somewhat personal analysis of the file that gets to very interestings and unknown facts to me. I must say I can speak some Brazilian portuguese (I mean with Brazilian phonetics), but not that far. I think I'd know about "casa de pasto" because it would sound very peculiar and certainly funny for Spaniards (where "casa de pasto" has the same meaning of "sty house"), who would very probably make fun of that now and then.
But it isn't, as it seems, and all of Heyder's points have been replied and beaten, so I think this discussion should end sometime soon.
Heyder, if you want to make a real Brazilian Portuguese translation, have some mates join the group, assign tasks, and translate directly from English, like all us did and still do. As far as we should be concerned, there should be a real monitoring by Patchou who would certify the nuber of users your translation has, because the download stats could be faked easily (I'm being very skeptic and stern, now, no offence intended). So well, you should remake the translation and do a proper job.
And btw,
quote:
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Originally posted by Gonçalo F.
tonic syllable
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Heavy Syllable is the correct form.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 08-31-2005 at 10:13 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
These are the current language stats. Quite some time ago, languages who dropped under 1000 users were pruned from the official package. I'm not sure about how many udownloads would be required to add that translation to the package, but surely at least more than 1000. Also the stats should be treated and monitored more accurately by the server administrators.
Patchou pruned a number of languages because they wasted an excessive space in the package and some seemed not to be used. Still all these can be downloaded from your localized page at http://www.msgplus.net
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Thank´s KeyStorm for your information.
quote:
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And a personal advice: Instead of aggresively advertising your translation, you may make a translation that proves for itself to be worth the addition.
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Thank´s for advice. I am not only understanding the "Instead of aggresively advertising"... Please, don't judge badly. My idea is not to be aggressive in my words; I am just asking in an insistent way that my translation for the Portuguese from Brazil is accepted as official translation. It is only that!
In any way, thank you.
Heyder.
quote:
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Well thanks for this exhaustie and somewhat personal analysis of the file that gets to very interestings and unknown facts to me. I must say...
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Dear KeyStorm:
Once again thank you because their posts have been equilibrate and their words have not been aggressive with me. In relation to the "very interestings and unknown facts", be careful! They are not conclusive so. The Mr. Gonçalo judged me mistakenly and was skittish in their affirmations.
quote:
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But it isn't, as it seems, and all of Heyder's points have been replied and beaten, so I think this discussion should end sometime soon.
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I have been insistent, it is true, but as I say to you previously, only just with the purpose of favoring the Brazilian peoples that use the Messenger Plus!. I continue thinking that a people have the merit (earn) of have a free program translated for your born language, even that, under the optics of some, the differences are few or that "give for understand"... However, if you think it is being tiresome, I can only to post the translation for download.
(I am joke, don't have the intention of you to offend!)
quote:
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Heyder, if you want to make a real Brazilian Portuguese translation, have some mates join the group, assign tasks, and translate directly from English, like all us did and still do. As far as we should be concerned, there should be a real monitoring by Patchou who would certify the nuber of users your translation has, because the download stats could be faked easily (I'm being very skeptic and stern, now, no offence intended). So well, you should remake the translation and do a proper job.
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Mr. Gonçalo judged me mistakenly. I sorry if our languages are similar - but no same - and it seemed for him that heve many coincidences in my translation. He affirms that I plagiarized your translation and that I used their work. THAT IS NOT TRUE, even if can seem. The education that I received from my family doesn't let to act me in a such dirty way. In my comparison of "Casa de Pasto" never had the intention of offending anybody to live in Portugal. As I already said previously, I have many Portuguese friends and I like of the Portuguese people. Many things that he mentions in offensive post to justify their conclusions are superficial and are not conclusive. For instance, he said that my translation contains very big sentences that don't fit in the areas designated in the program. Of course that before posting the file for download in the forum, I test in my own Messenger Plus! and Windows and I correct all the possible flaws. Very curious... none of the 450 people that downloaded the file complained of that. . . to the opposite, I received eulogy... (http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=45283)
Finally, I made the translation starting from the file in English using the Messenger Plus! Translator of Mr. Choli (http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=11880). I had the work of translating line the line of whole the file. I spent about 1 month making that because it is my hobby to do software translations. I admit that, in some sentences I just appeal upon the file in portugal Portuguese TO SEE how it had been translated ONLY. Many times I see a similar translation to mine! Of Course! The languages are very similar!
I am extremely offended with the words and false accusations of the sr. gonçalo. I think that he is not worthy of my answer. So, I prefer to ignore him.
Thank´s for all.
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 09-01-2005 at 04:57 AM
I actually can't tell who's right in this issue. But I know Gonçalo from these forums and I think (heck, I'm almost sure) he has nothing against Brazilian Portuguese translations. However, and as usual around here, there have been some failed attempts, being this one from his point of view.
I can tell he and his team work very professionally since they have more target users to please than they formerly did (mainly Portugal and Brazil, which is quite a lot of potential users). Currently, more than 647 000 individuals use their Portuguese translation, which makes more than 10% of all the users community. This is quite a responsibility for the people in charge and the work has needed more than a month, because there's much more than just translating:
-individual feature study
-feature names translations, wich need to be thoroughly discussed between members and extremely accurate to thinking of the feature itself and of the end-user
-actual translation
-correction
-careful shortcut selection
-technical testing (text fitting, shortcuts...)
-end-user testing (which is a test run by unrelated users that may not be as Messenger Plus! clever as translators, however this can be hardly done, except if you add specific testers for this area to the group, whom to legally share the translators beta)
For this I think it's a must to be a group, alone at least to brainstorm how features have to be called.
I hope you can please Gonçalo and all of us in a future introducing a well structured gorup (doesn't need to be more than 4 people) and a fully renovated translation.
If I have some time tomorrow I'll perform a diff on both files to see how far keys may have been ripped to have a clearer idea of the facts, although I can't judge the language itself.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by CookieRevised on 09-01-2005 at 05:11 AM
plagiarized or not, accurate or not, mistakes or not... the fact is that the translation was removed because it had less than 1000 users.
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
Very curious... none of the 450 people that downloaded the file complained of that. . . to the opposite, I received eulogy... (http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=45283)
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1 person saying "perfect" does certainly not mean your translation is perfect at all. In fact, it could well be someone who posted this without even looking at all the translations or even without testing it first...
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btw, I can already say that your translation does have technical errors in it. Did you read the Official Translation Guidelines? If not, I urge to do that and fix your translation. As KeyStorm said, there is much more to it then pure translating to make a proper software translation. Pure translating is only the first step of many to make your translation file acceptable.
eg:
CurrentLanguageA=Português (Brasil)
^^ accents are not allowed and thus it should be "Portugues (Brasil)"
Your file is saved as Unicode, this is not needed at all, since it doesn't contain any unicode characters.
in [QuickText.Defaults] the commands can not be translated!
it lacks consistancy on some points (eg: interpunction)
etc.
Using Choli's Trranslator program is good for comparing. But it is not recommended to use it as the only tool to make the actual translation; there are many important comments inside the original English language file which must be followed also...
As for comparing the two (the Brazilian and the Protuguese translations), they are very very similar, and I must say that there are a lot(!) of similarities. Moststuff in your translation is literally what I have found in the Protuguese translation (minus some changed words) or with some other grammar but using the exact same words.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-01-2005 at 01:34 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
I actually can't tell who's right in this issue. But I know Gonçalo from these forums and I think (heck, I'm almost sure) he has nothing against Brazilian Portuguese translations...
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Ok, KeyStorm, I understand. I accept the concept that you have of Mr. Gonçalo. You know him, me not. However, to offend me in the way that he did, just because he finds a lot of coincidences in my translation, it is at least, lacks of a good education. To accuse somebody only for evidences can to generate legal process for slander.
Thank you for the information of as the translation group acts. Really, are many items to be observed. I don't really have conditions of to gather a group of people for this work. I make translations alone and I sometimes receive my wife's help that it is also medical doctor. Always I have some time free at night and a weekends, but not is enough for a work so serious as you described for me.
Therefore, I will make the following: come on stop this discussion. I will continue posting my translation in the forum for all the peoples interested Brazilians. Who desire can make the download. If any day a group of people to appear interested in assuming a commitment with Mr. Patchou in the official translation for the Portuguese from Brazil, you (the community of forum) discuss the subject again.
Again, thank´s for your consideration and caution in judge me.
Regards,
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 09-01-2005 at 02:06 PM
I am pretty sure if you post an offer in this forum to engage experienced Brazilians to join your group, you will be able to achieve this. You actually only need IM and email contact to them. Internet offers you such ability to find people. If you're interested in keeping the translation moving on, you can find people who might want to help you.
quote:
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Originally posted by Heyder
caution in judge me
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I'm understanding this as a threat and I'm not going to accept this. I hope you missed your words and you apologise.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-01-2005 at 02:07 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by CookieRevised
plagiarized or not, accurate or not, mistakes or not... the fact is that the translation was removed because it had less than 1000 users.
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Ok, thank´s.
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1 person saying "perfect" does certainly not mean your translation is perfect at all. In fact, it could well be someone who posted this without even looking at all the translations or even without testing it first...
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You don´t understand. I receive 1 eulogy, is true; BUT of the 450 downloads, NOBODY complained. . . it is not curious?
quote:
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btw, I can already say that your translation does have technical errors in it...
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You until it can find some errors (technicals or not) in my translation. Really, I is not a group. Besides, I am human and can wander. But the that imports is that, as Brazilian person that I am, I use my translation and it perfectly work in my Windows and Messenger Plus! Like this, it perfectly work in my system, it will work in the systems of all the Brazilians that use the same versions of Windows and Messenger Plus!.
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Using Choli's Trranslator program is good for comparing. But it is not recommended to use it as the only tool to make the actual translation; there are many important comments inside the original English language file which must be followed also...
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Thank´s. I will make a detailed revision on the outside of the Translating program.
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As for comparing the two (the Brazilian and the Protuguese translations), they are very very similar, and I must say that there are a lot[ no parse ](!)[/noparse] of similarities. Moststuff in your translation is literally what I have found in the Protuguese translation (minus some changed words) or with some other grammar but using the exact same words.
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Ok, I respect your opinion. But I think that this is not the opinion of the Brazilians peoples, at least of the 460 that already downloaded my translation... Small details cause discomfort in the reading. Can be small details even, but are these details that make the difference between languages and people and also need to be respected.
As I told KeyStorm, will stop that discussion. From now on, I will just continue ONLY posting my translation in the forum. The Brazilians that want to use the Brazilian language can make download of my translation; the others that want use the portugal translation also free to do it.
I think that so, stop this discussion, ok!?
Dr. Heyder
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
I'm understanding this as a threat and I'm not going to accept this. I hope you missed your words and you apologise.
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No, no, no! Please! I think I didn't explain to myself correctly!
I want to say that thank your understanding with me and your balance or equilibration or consideration and care before of jugde me for evidences that other people mention. You undestand now?
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 09-01-2005 at 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Heyder
BUT of the 450 downloads, NOBODY complained
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From my experience as translator we hardly receive complaints. The only complaints we usually get come from people who is actively supporting the translation and helping to improve it. Later on, these individuals are usually accepted into the translation group for they qualified testing and observation.
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RE: RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Edu115 on 09-06-2005 at 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by Heyder
Ok, KeyStorm, I understand. I accept the concept that you have of Mr. Gonçalo. You know him, me not. However, to offend me in the way that he did, just because he finds a lot of coincidences in my translation, it is at least, lacks of a good education. To accuse somebody only for evidences can to generate legal process for slander.
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Dr. Heyder, in your "oh so high-standard and high educated" world, somebody forgot to tell you that you can't "generate legal process for slander" just because someone in a forum accused you.
And for the record, and don't take it as an insult or something like that, your english isn't that good, so i personally don't think you could do an entire translation alone.
But hey, you're the doctor. "Me not."
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RE: RE: RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-08-2005 at 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Edu115
1). Dr. Heyder, in your "oh so high-standard and high educated" world, somebody forgot to tell you that you can't "generate legal process for slander" just because someone in a forum accused you.
2). And for the record, and don't take it as an insult or something like that, your english isn't that good, so i personally don't think you could do an entire translation alone.
3). But hey, you're the doctor. "Me not."
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1). This doesn't depend on education, but information... are very different things... Besides, I didn't say that would process somebody... I just complained of the a unjust accusation.
2). Ok, no problems. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with you. I think that the Brazilians people also not.
3). Excuse me for the addiction of using the "Dr.". This happens for "force of the profession"... I am not better than nobody for that, mainly when the subject is text translation... but thank´s for your post.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Edu115 on 09-12-2005 at 05:20 AM
I rest my case... Do whatever you want, but just don't copy or use other translators work.. If it's good enough, Patchou will make it official.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-13-2005 at 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Edu115
I rest my case... Do whatever you want, but just don't copy or use other translators work.. If it's good enough, Patchou will make it official.
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Close your discussion without accusing frivolously me. I DIDN'T COPY ANY TRANSLATOR WORK. Nobody has proofs of that.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by paperless on 09-13-2005 at 03:56 PM
Look, there are many kinds of portuguese, European Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese and African Portuguese.
The african Portuguese is not as known as the other two because people on these countries are poor and cant afford a computer.
I dont know what your objective is, but you wont have Brazilian Portuguese bundled with Msgplus anytime soon as there are many kinds of Portuguese there are many kinds of French, English etc.
And only the ones from England, France aka the "original" languages come with Msgplus, i personally dont agree with this, i dont understand why Patchou decided so but he did.
I dont know where you took that idea from but we dont say Casa de Pasto but Restaurante just as you.
And in the same context we can use senha as well, yeah we use mostly palavra-passe but senha can also be used.
If you want to translate, fine, but it will not be official.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-14-2005 at 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by paperless
1) I dont know what your objective is, but you wont have Brazilian Portuguese bundled with Msgplus anytime soon as there are many kinds of Portuguese there are many kinds of French, English etc.
2) ...I personally dont agree with this, i dont understand why Patchou decided so but he did.
3)I dont know where you took that idea from but we dont say Casa de Pasto but Restaurante just as you. And in the same context we can use senha as well, yeah we use mostly palavra-passe but senha can also be used.
4) If you want to translate, fine, but it will not be official.
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1) My objective is simple: To give a present the Brazilian people with a legitimate translation Brazilian of Messenger Plus! Look that, same being portuguese languages (of same Latin origin) they are different amongst themselves. Same being small the differences, it is pleasant extremamemte you to read something in your native language, as well as it is unpleasant to read something in a language SIMILAR to yours.
2) I don't also understand, but the program belongs to him... he is entitled of deciding how he wants to do.
3) I think that I committed a mistake in this comparison. I already excused myself for that. However, the other comparisons are true, not?
4) Ok, Paperless. I already gave up on being an official translator of Messenger Plus!. I will just continue my post translation in the forum. The only thing that leaves me very sad, it is the form as some people as Mr. Edu115 and Mr. Gonçalo acted with me, accusing me of plagiarism without proofs, what is not true. I think the people should be more educated and less offensives in their postage in the forum. They should consider that when somebody offers his time to do a free translation, is trying to do a well just, nothing more.
Thank´s by your post.
Dr. Heyder
Em português do Brasil:
1) Meu objetivo é simples e único: presentear o povo brasileiro com uma tradução legÃtima brasileira do Messenger Plus! Note que, mesmo sendo idiomas portuguêses (de mesma origem latina) são diferentes entre si. Mesmo sendo pequenas as diferenças, é extremamemte agradável você ler algo no seu idioma nativo, assim como é desagradável ler algo em um idioma PARECIDO com o seu.
2) Eu também não entendo, mas o programa é dele... ele tem o direito de decidir como quer fazer.
3) Eu acho que cometi um erro nesta comparação. Já me desculpei por isso. No entanto, as demais comparações são verdadeiras, não?
4) Eu já desisti de ser um tradutor oficial do Messenger Plus!. Apenas continuarei postanto minha tradução no forum. A única coisa que me deixa muito triste, é a forma como algumas pessoas como o Sr. Edu115 e Sr. Gonçalo agiram comigo, acusando-me de plágio sem provas, o que não é verdade. Eu acho que as pessoas deveriam ser mais educadas e menos ofensivas em suas postagem no forum. Elas deveriam considerar que, quando alguém oferece seu tempo para fazer uma tradução gratuita, está tentando fazer apenas um bem, nada mais.
Obrigado por seu post.
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by UnduTheGun on 09-14-2005 at 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Heyder
1) My objective is simple: To give a present the Brazilian people with a legitimate translation Brazilian of Messenger Plus!
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As keystorm said, you should find other Brazilian people so you can compare ideas. I don't think a single person without translating skills and experience (e. g. have studied in a univeristy to be a translator), can have a good translation from English.
Don't get me wrong, I've read the thread and I know you have good intentions, but translating a text isn't as easy as it sounds.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by paperless on 09-14-2005 at 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by UnduTheGun
As keystorm said, you should find other Brazilian people so you can compare ideas. I don't think a single person without translating skills and experience (e. g. have studied in a univeristy to be a translator), can have a good translation from English.
Don't get me wrong, I've read the thread and I know you have good intentions, but translating a text isn't as easy as it sounds.
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Excuse me?
You need to go on university and get an english course to translate Msgplus?
Its not a book or anything its just a program with simple single words in most cases some sentences.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 09-14-2005 at 05:19 PM
Please, paperless, read again. No one is talking about such requirements.
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Tom M. Riddle on 09-14-2005 at 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by UnduTheGun
I don't think a single person without translating skills and experience (e. g. have studied in a univeristy to be a translator), can have a good translation from English.
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Originally posted by paperless
Originally posted by UnduTheGun
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
Please, paperless, read again. No one is talking about such requirements.
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I believe the quotes didn't go well.
Edit: he corrected it...
Anyway, from what I've read, no one is stopping anyone to do a translation for personal use and maybe sharing among a group of people. It won't be labeled as official, but it still can be used, as long as this is stated (if you're going to distribute it).
If you're really up to the challenge of translating the English strings by yourself, good luck. But don't use another translation to base yours. This is simply what was told to you by the official translators, and there is no need to make a big deal of it.
You must understand that most translations require a group of people working hard on a project, and they don't get paid. It's not surprising they are suspicious of a very similar translation, coming from a person who claims both languages are, somewhat, different.
Good luck!
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-15-2005 at 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Leo
1) Anyway, from what I've read, no one is stopping anyone to do a translation for personal use and maybe sharing among a group of people. It won't be labeled as official, but it still can be used, as long as this is stated (if you're going to distribute it). 2) If you're really up to the challenge of translating the English strings by yourself, good luck. 3) But don't use another translation to base yours. 4) This is simply what was told to you by the official translators, and there is no need to make a big deal of it. 5) You must understand that most translations require a group of people working hard on a project, and they don't get paid. 6) It's not surprising they are suspicious of a very similar translation, coming from a person who claims both languages are, somewhat, different. Good luck!
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1) Yes. I will continue making my Messenger Plus translation! and posting at the forum so that all of the interested people can download freely.
2) Thank you.
3) I don't understand you. After you to have read all, how can you still think like this?
4) Ok, I agree. I just lament that translators officiate accepted by Patchou have attitudes such ugly.
5) I understood so well that, I don't want more to be translating official.
6) I agree, again. However, that doesn't give right to anybody of accusing me of plagiarism.
Thank you for post, Leo.
Dr. Heyder
Para os amigos Portugueses e Brasileiros:
1) Sim. Eu continuarei fazendo minhas traduções do Messenger Plus! e postando-as no forum para que os interessados possam baixá-las livremente.
2) Obrigado.
3) Eu não estou entendendo você. Depois de ter lido tudo, como você ainda pode pensar assim?
4) Ok, eu concordo. Eu só lamento que tradutores oficiais aceitos por Patchou tenham atitudes tão feias (baixas).
5) Eu entendi tão bem, que não quero mais ser tradutor oficial.
6) Eu concordo novamente. Porém, isso não dá o direito a ninguém de acusar-me de plágio.
Para baixar a última tradução brasileira do Messenger Plus!, clique aqui:
http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=45283
Obrigado por sua postagem, Leo.
Dr. Heyder
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Originally posted by UnduTheGun
1) As keystorm said, you should find other Brazilian people so you can compare ideas. 2) I don't think a single person without translating skills and experience (e. g. have studied in a univeristy to be a translator), can have a good translation from English. 3) Don't get me wrong, I've read the thread and I know you have good intentions, but translating a text isn't as easy as it sounds.
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1) To find people is easy; the difficult is my time to coincide with the one of them. I make translations of softwares simply for hobby in my litlle time free. I make that as a good therapy! But I don't have fixed time... it is a here, other there... Therefore, I don't want more being an official translator. I will continue posting my translations in the forum for any one to do download.
2) I respect his opinion, but I don't agree with you. I think that if I am good in my language and to perfectly understand what a sentence means in English, I will know how to translate it exactly for my language. The Mensenger Plus! it is just a program with a lot of simple sentences to be translated. Anybody that has some technical knowledge of computer science will know how to perfectly understand his text. One more thing: I cannot be a deep expert of the English grammar, but I am good expert of the Brazilian grammar. Like this, my posts in this forum until can contain some grammatical mistake, but my translation for brazilian language no. 3) Ok. no problem. Thank´s.
Dr. Heyder
Para os amigos Portugueses e Brasileiros:
1) Achar pessoas é fácil; o dicÃcil é o meu tempo coincidir com o delas. Eu faço traduções de softwares simplesmente por hobby no meu pouco tempo livre. Faço isso como boa terapia! Mas eu não tenho tempo fixo para isso... é um pouco aqui, um pouco alli... Por isso, eu não quero mais ser tradutor oficial. Continuarei postando minhas traduções neste forum para que qualquer pessoa possa baixá-la.
2) Eu respeito sua opinião, mas não concordo com você. Eu acho que, se conheço bem meu idioma e entendo perfeitamente o que uma frase em inglês significa, saberei traduzi-la exatamante para minha linguagem. O Mensenger Plus! é um programa com muitas frases simples de serem traduzidas. Qualquer pessoa que tenha algum conhecimento técnico de informática saberá entender perfeitamente seu texto. Mais uma coisa: Posso não ser um expert em gramática inglesa, mas conheço profundamente a gramática brasileira. Assim, meus posts neste forum podem até conter algum erro gramatical, mas minhas traduções para a lÃngua brasileira não. 3) Ok, sem problemas. Obrigado.
Baixe a última versão da tradução do Messenger Plus! para o Brasil aqui:
http://www.msghelp.net/showthread.php?tid=45283
Dr. Heyder
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 09-15-2005 at 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Heyder
To find people is easy; the difficult is my time to coincide with the one of them. I make translations of softwares simply for hobby in the time that have free. I make that as a good therapy! But I don't have fixed time... it is a here, other there... Therefore, I don't want more being an official translator. I will continue posting my translations in the forum for any one to do download.
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There is no special requirement about time disposal. Groups can be managesper mail or using this board, soi it doesn't require a constantly simultaneous work.
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Originally posted by Heyder
Anybody that has some technical knowledge of computer science
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The fact is that this software does not require such, it's targetted to a broader public of limited computer usage knowledge as well as including some more technical features.
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-15-2005 at 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
There is no special requirement about time disposal. Groups can be managesper mail or using this board, soi it doesn't require a constantly simultaneous work.
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The real problem, KeyStorm, is the synchronism and necessary commitment to maintain the group working. I travel a lot because of my work. It can happen, e.g. of the group to need of a translation that was under my responsibility with urgency and I to delay an entire work for me to be absent. Do you understand me?
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by KeyStorm on 09-15-2005 at 08:21 PM
Well, in a group one can show disposal to a certain work or not, so others can go on with it.
On last translation I was very busy with exams and sould not help my group to translate the 3.54 version. I told them and they split the work acordingly among them excluding me. Now I'm participating on currently ongoing translation, again.
There are hardly any inconvenients to having a group, in fact it has many advantages, like being able to urgently act even if there is personal indisposability. This would also aid the fact that 1) it is added to the official package of pruned translations and 2) being able to someday be included again to the package if the demand proves to be high enough (by internal monitoring).
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RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by CookieRevised on 09-16-2005 at 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by KeyStorm
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Originally posted by Heyder
Anybody that has some technical knowledge of computer science
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The fact is that this software does not require such, it's targetted to a broader public of limited computer usage knowledge as well as including some more technical features.
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But this certainly does not mean that anybody can translate the English texts to his/her own language just like that.
In the "simple" English texts every word has a meaning and often the way in how it is said is important.
It takes somebody with a very good computer knowledge and an even better extremely excellent knowledge of the software he/she is translating to make easy understandable and above all correct(!) translations.
You need to know exactly what each function/feature does in a program to be able to translate it. Just understanding English is certainly not enough....
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RE: Official Translator Brasil by Leif on 09-16-2005 at 01:53 PM
Time to close this thread by now, perhaps?
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RE: RE: RE: Official Translator Brasil by Heyder on 09-19-2005 at 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by CookieRevised
1) In the "simple" English texts every word has a meaning and often the way in how it is said is important.
...
2) You need to know exactly what each function/feature does in a program to be able to translate it. Just understanding English is certainly not enough....
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1) I agree fully.
2) I agree again. But, when I said "technical knowledge in computer science" I understand that that includes a deep knowledge of the software that one will translate. Of course, if I don't know to use a program I cannot also translate it in way correct, same understanding English very well.
Thank´s by your post, CookieRevised.
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2006-10-27 22:59:07 · answer #2 · answered by Riki 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋