what was socrates concept of the state in the Apology and the Crito?

Answer 1

First of all, I'd like to take a second to consider one of the implications in your question. And that is that the opinions contained in Plato's "Apology" and "Crito" are, in fact, Socrates'. Many critics do agree that this is so, but we don't have any ironclad proof of the fact. For the sake of argument we'll assume it to be so, but I'd just like to say that it might not be.

Having said that, you have chosen two interesting sources from which to draw views of the state. In many senses they are opposed - in "Apology", Socrates is cast as an enemy of the state, and even seems to do his best to play into that role, but in "Crito" he instead defends the interests of the state. It seems odd to some that one person could resist so strongly and then be so resigned only a few days later. But we'll try to pull as consistant a thread as we can.

The first thing that bears mention is that Socrates overtly says that the interests of the state can only be second to the interests of the gods. And where the two conflict, the gods must prevail. He does not seem to be advocating a theocracy, and given his very personal relationship with the gods, does not even seem to be advocating that religious institutions should be able to dictate to political ones. Perhaps the best way to put it would be to say that Socrates seems to feel that a good state is made up of good people who all individually revere the gods, and the state should never call on them to do otherwise.

But after the gods, the state falls cleanly second in the pecking order, even before parents. A person's parents are responsible for producing, nurturing, and educating them, but according to Socrates, the state does the same things, but to an even greater degree. Your parents cannot protect you from barbarians or provide every kind of educator and commodity - only a society can do that. And no society exists without a state. Thus every person owes their home society a debt just as they owe their parents, and disrespecting that debt would be just as ungodly.

The law is therefore of paramount importance. By defying the law, you are seeking to destroy your society and marking yourself as an enemy of the state. If you do not like the laws, you may lawfully change them or leave for another state, in Socrates' mind, but nothing else is acceptable.

Socrates also seems in many senses to be fervently for a democratic system. From the "Apology" we see that he relishes his ability to influence law and defend himself in court. And even though public opinion finds him guilty and sentances him to death, he concedes it is their right to do so and goes as far as to forgive his accusors. His focus, again, is on the many citizens. Because of this focus, one might infer that he would find a single autocrat to be highly objectionable, though he does not overtly say so and would probably argue that a debt was owed no matter WHAT the nature of the state itself.

That's a thumbnail sketch, anyway. In neither work does he really directly talk about the state much... it's more application than theory! Hope that helps!

Answer 2

The only way I can see that Socrates contradicts himself in Apology, is when he admonishes Crito for feeling grief at losing him. At that point, Socrates asserts that it is illogical to feel grief for what will happen to him (Socrates) after death because no one can know what happens to them after they die. I am paraphrasing but this comment directly contradicts all his references to learning derived from recollection of former lives of the soul. Certainly it must be false that Crito's grief is illogical since he must have some memory of past lives. If this is not so, then Socrates is incorrect about his theory of recollection of past lives.

Answer 3

oh god, I cant even read Greek philosophy anymore.. Its like an ancient greek version of the homosexual penthouse letters. The concepts and all that are true but damn.. When they start conversing about how beautiful a boy is and how they had sex with them... Just kinda creeps me out