Should a man be charged with rape if he sleeps with a drunk girl?

Question

OK I know this is old news now, but in the UK they are proposing a change in laws which would mean that girls who were too drunk could not give "meaningful consent", and a man can face a rape conviction if he can't prove she gave sober consent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=410535&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=

I understand they need to be able to make more convictions but this is very dodgy in my opinion, we could be convicting men who just thought they got pissed and had a one night stand. People fall into bed when they're hammered- the line between that and rape will be very blurred if they go ahead with this, when I think right now any reasonable person can tell the difference.

What does everyone else think? Does anyone support this proposal, and why? What would you suggest men do to avoid a rape charge after a date where they shared a couple bottles of wine, or after the booze-fuelled office Christmas party?

Answer 1

It seems ridiculous to me that, if the proposed chaqnges come into play, a woman will be able to claim rape even if she, in fact, said "yes", since it will then be up to a jury to decide if she was too drunk to give "Informed consent". Perhaps they'll also be asked to decide if the man was too drunk to give "informed refusal", or some such nonsense. Is the government unaware that many young people deliberately set out at night to get drunk and get laid, and that among them will be a few (very few I hope) women who regret their actions the next day and claim rape??
This, of course, is the government that has given us 24 hour drinking, and is now spending £4 million on advertising aimed at young people to try to reduce binge drinking!!
I've just read Sluggo's reply, and see he's American. It's my understanding that some American colleges are currently advising students to do exaclty what he suggests, getting signed consent to exactly what levels of sexual activity might be permitted on a date. Who is "allowed" to do exactly what to whom, and the circumstances surrounding the whole activity, where with whom, how, what sexual activity (petting, oral sex, mutual masturbation, full intercourse, anal etc, etc, etc). Romance? no chance!
The only safe course to follow will be for a man to fefuse to have sex with any woman who has had even one drink. There go your gentle, candle lit dinners, with a bottle of wine, and gentle seduction. Girls, enjoy the triumph that you so richly deserve. Just don't complain that there's no romance any more ( a moan I heard recently from a woman, who wanted exactly that, a nice evening with' a nice man, over a candle lit dinner!)

Answer 2

The convictions (against charges) of rape in the UK (probably the world) are very low.

You can not enter a legally binding contract when you are under the influence of alcohol, and that’s what sex is becoming. If you do not ask for consent in an extremely forward way and don’t wait for a straight answer then any allegation could be made.

Introducing this law will only lower the number of convictions made. The question of how drunk someone is… well that’s an extremely debatable topic in a court. Some people handle their drink really well, are these people not allowed to have sex even though they are, to a certain degree, coherent? How would you know the amount someone had to drink? Would you have to count the drinks?

I know someone that was accused of rape, the girl was drunk, so was he, and a big mess was made for everyone. It turns out that the girl made a habit of making these accusations for attention. I only worry that more ‘false’ cases will be made, I don’t see how this will reduce rape cases or increase convictions.

The remedy for this kind of rape case is for everyone to be a bit more responsible and get drunk a lot less often.

Answer 3

First, I live in the US and don't know squat all about the specifics of British law, but one of the problems the courts anywhere have is defining a criminal act. In other words, where does "consent" begin and end? If a young woman accepts a date with a man, both of them having and being aware that the other has working genitalia, does that constitute consent? Or, will it finally come to the point that the man has to have the woman complete a form, stating precisely what sexual acts she will willingly participate in, and sign it, before taking her to his place? Obviously those are outrageous extremes but if there were some definition, some statute for guidance, the courts would have a far easier time making determinations in cases where women wake up the next morning, regret their behavior, and shout rape. I do disagree with the proposal you've stated. It's the woman's responsibility to drink moderately and keep her wits about her. If it's the case that the guy slips something in her drink to impair her judgment, that's another matter.

Answer 4

How will any man ever feel safe having sex again?

Will this be the end of one night stands simply from the point of view a girl can shout rape if she was tipsy, cheats on her boyfriend and feels guilty the next day?

Rape is a terrible crime, i think anyone who commits rape deserves far more punishment than the get now.

It is really worrying that i might meet someone in a club, stay the night at hers then spend 10 years in prison because she was at the police station the next day.

I don't think there is an answer to this, we need to encourage women to come forward who have been attacked yet we have to stop some women destroying the life of innocent men.

You couldn't even get her to sign a letter of consent before because whose to say she then doesn't change her mind?

I've been to bed with girls where i was much more drunk that her, does that mean she raped me?

Maybe this will be the end of sex with strangers, one night stand, etc but could that possible then bring about a reduction in unwanted pregnancies and even Aids?

Answer 5

I identify as a feminist and I feel that it depends a lot on how drunk a person is and whether they are able to concent. But technically is both people are very drunk then it is mutual rape. I think it's important to take gender out of it and just view it as two people having sex and say they same if its a straight or lesbian or gay couple. If your gf sleeps with you when you are drunk enough not to concent then yes I would view that as rape, but I belive the law does not agree. If both people are drunk and not either has properly concented then I believe yes they did rape each other, I'm not sure about what the law says about this one. It depends again how drunk the rapist was. As we are calling them a rapist they can obviously get done for rape. But depends on how drunk they were as to whether it was mutual rape. Anyway this is just my opinion apart from obviosly the parts I have written about the law. Others may think very differently from me. Hope I helped :)

Answer 6

In the first place, I think actual rapists should be hung publicly. No kidding.

However, having sex with someone who is drunk is not rape unless that person is saying no. There's the key to if it is or isn't. Is she saying no or is she saying come on or playing with him as though expecting sex? If she's stupid enough to get so drunk she doesn't know what she's doing, it's her responsibility as much as it is his (or vice versa, but how many men fuss about having sex afterwards).

Women need to be more responsible in bars, and elsewhere. They cannot go to clubs, wear next to nothing, get bombed in front of a bunch of strange men, and not expect trouble. Be realistic. No, it does not give a man a right to take advantage! Not at all. If he does, he's a pretty scummy guy, but then maybe they're a decent match. We are responsible for what we do. If we want to be treated like ladies, we should act like ladies. If we want to protect ourselves, we shouldn't go get bombed in bars ... unless maybe we have good friends with us who are staying sober and will protect us from scums.

These "drunk rape" cases would only detract from the actual cases of rape that are already not taken seriously enough. Rape is an extremely serious accusation. It can't be taken that lightly. Maybe charge them with unintentional assault if needed so they get a slap in the face to tell them to wise up instead.

Answer 7

Can people who buy stuff when they were drunk or sell stuff demand it back the next day? Can they sue for damages if they suffer losses because of the transaction? I doubt it.

What if a man is more drunk then the woman, can he charge her?

What if they're both drunk?

If either party is sober enough to be an active participant, I think that implies consent. I don't accept the 'meaningful consent' idea. I do accept that someone who is passed out, or virtually passed out (doesn't participate, just lies there) whether male or female is not providing consent.

Answer 8

The American legal system currently doesn't recognize consent from someone under the influence. It's unjust. Women use alcohol as an excuse for behavior they want to engage in but cannot reconcile. A woman getting drunk alone in the company of a man is consenting to sex. But this law's stupidity isn't what makes it unjust. It's that this law will never been enforced agaisnt a woman who gets a man drunk to take advantage of him. The frist time I hear of a woman going away for 20-to-life for failing to get sober consent from a man before engaging in sexual intercourse with him I will gladly stand behind this law.

Answer 9

One solution is for men to wait till person sobers up next day to get true consent before having sex. Women will have to do the same. Or both sexes learn to drink less and remember what happened previous night. Less alcohol means less accusations?? Consensual sex much better if not too much alcohol consumed by both parties.

Answer 10

Rape is rape and if men stopped assuming he could get into your knickers because you have had one over the odds then he should grow up and get a life, a real man would never take advantage of a drunken women, he would have respect for himself and for her too, no means no and rape is rape.