How many people know the Hindenburg didn't burn because of Hydrogen?

Question

It turns out that the doping on the fabric that held everything toegether and water proofed it was made of Iron Oxide and Aluminum which results in a compound called Thermite. Thermite is the substance used as ROCKET FUEL by NASA on the solid fuel rocket boosters for shuttle launch. How's that for irony?

What happened was that the Hindenburg flew through an electrical storm and when they dropped the cords, it was supposed to safely discharge all the electrical charge. But some of the doped panels were insulated by the cord holding them together, so when the rest of the air ship discharged, it created a high voltage electrical difference between some of the panels. Then there was the spark. The spark almost instantaneously ignited the rocket fuel that was painted on the outside. Of course the Hydrogen eventually caught fire, but you wouldn't have seen burning hydrogen on the video or the pictures. It burns invisibly. No wonder it burned so quickly, eh? COMMENTS? Who knew this?

SO we could see a return in hydrogen power and lift. Everyone seems to think it's so dangerous since the accident. But Nasa uses it all the time.

I just saw a program about a retired NASA engineer who just proved this fact. I was enthrolled to say the least.

Answer 1

A couple facts are not quite right, or are misleading:

(1) Thermite is NOT used as a rocket fuel. It is used to weld large pieces of steel together or to cut them apart -- it does not produce nearly enough gas to provide enough thrust to be rocket fuel (but it DOES produce a LOT of heat -- they might possibly use a small thermite torch to start the solid rocket boosters I suppose, but it is not the main fuel). The SRB's do use aluminum and a relatively SMALL amount of iron oxide, but also a very large amount of oxidizers, binders, and moderators. Thermite is itself very hard to get started BTW, normally requiring burning magnesium (a couple thousand degrees) to get it started.

(2) The show did not PROVE that Hindenburg's skin WAS ignited by static discharge (I saw it too -- very interesting program but as most such programs are, extremely one-sided pushing of a hypothesis). It showed that the skin COULD POSSIBLY have been ignited by static discharge such as from an electrical storm. But proving possibility is a long ways from proving actuality. It could just as easily have been -- and in fact easier and therefore more likely -- that an electrical discharge ignited some hydrogen (which as you have pointed out you would not see burning at first since it burns with a nearly-invisible light blue flame) and that in turn ignited the Hindenburg's skin. Alternatively, someone wishing to discgrace the Nazis could have planted some sort of an incendiary device intended to ignite the gas (or the skin) shortly after everyone had gotten off the airship, and the thing went off earlier (or the ship arrived later) than they expected. There are any number of great chemicals that will do nothing for many minutes to many hours, then ignite and be completely consumed to the degree that 1930's forensics would have found no trace.

(3) A hydrogen flame is as you noted nearly invisible -- but everything that gets burning AROUND the hydrogen produces flames that are NOT invisible. You may not technically be able to see hydrogen burning in full daylight, but you WILL definitely be able to see the flames of everything around it burning from the high heat.

(4) Watch closely the way the airship is so rapidly consumed by the fire, which appears to be burning UNDER the skin and breaking through at the joints in the skin -- this is much more typical of a gas flamefront than a thermite type flamefront. As you noted, eventually the rest of the gas would catch fire -- but was this a gas fire CAUSING the skin to burn or was the gas being ignited BECAUSE the skin was burning?

(5) When a thermite type mixture (or anything with aluminum particles in it) burns, the result is a SEARING brilliant white light. Burning aluminum is what the old flash powder (for photography) was. In thermite, the reaction is that the iron oxide is giving up it's oxygen so that the aluminum can burn. I've used thermite before, believe me you cannot bear to look at it or even in its general direction while it is burning. You need an arc-welding mask if you don't want to be blind. I don't see any real sign of this kind of blindingly bright ignition on the Hindenburg films -- you can see many structural ribs and things through the flame IIRC. As I said before, it looks alot more to me like a flamefront through flamable gas behinf a flamable skin than any kind of metal-based accellerant on the surface.

Anyway, it is a good theory and it does open up other possibilities to consider besides hydrogen ignition and intentional sabotage -- but it is far from proven as being the actual cause.

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"SO we could see a return in hydrogen power and lift."

There is no point in doing so now. Hindenburg was designed to use Helium (very safe) but was unable to obtain enough for the job due to boycotts and embargoes of critical (militarily-useful) supplies such as Helium. SO they found a way to make Hydrogen safe enough (they felt) for use. Remember, those big beautiful airships with a pretty red-and-white swastika on the tails were POWERFUL propoganda for the Nazi party, they were not about to give up on such a great piece of prestige. Today we have an abundance of helium, which is why we use it in the blimps (Goodyear Blimp, Fuji Blimp, etc.) instead of Hydrogen -- it is cheaper and safer for this application.

"Everyone seems to think it's so dangerous since the accident. But Nasa uses it all the time"

And on several occaisions it has gone "boom" and killed NASA people, too. It did even more so in the former Soviet Union. There is an assumed element of risk associated with strapping yourself to a barely-controlled bomb and literally blowing yourself off the planet for a week. Anyway, NASA is using hydrogen specifically FOR its explosive power, to generate THRUST -- not it's lightness to produce LIFT.

Answer 2

Hydrogen ignites at 600 deg C and burns at a temp of 2100 deg so it combines with oxygen to form steam, which as you know, is water in vapor form. Another characteristic of hydrogen fires is that the flames tend to ascend rapidly with the gas in air, as illustrated by the Hindenburg flames, causing less damage than hydrocarbon fires. Two-thirds of the Hindenburg passengers survived the fire, and many of the deaths which occurred were from falling or from diesel fuel burns. I'm sure most of it returned as rain eventually, after it cooled dowm.

Answer 3

Fascinating theory! Some flaws! The recordings of the ship burning were made with motion picture cameras using reels of film! Not video! If you look carefully at the actual motion pictures, and as I remember seeing them rerun, flames are only evident in conjunction with burning materials ignited by the burning hydrogen. I am sure that the fabric dope (all fabric covered aircraft used 'doped' coverings) was, in itself, highly flamable but whether the initial flame was due to the ignition of the hydrogen gas or the material finishes I do not believe is actually known! The fact that the metal framework of the ship quickly became incandescently hot to where it began to melt and fold up like cooked spaghetti suggests that the burning gas was the main destructive force! Please advise your source of this information!

Answer 4

I did not know this, but have looked into hydrogen power, It seems as if the problem is getting the hydrogen in a usable form. I am not a scientist, but from what I have read it takes more energy to get pure hydrogen from water then the energy you would receive from the hydrogen. So until something like Helium 3 gets developed which is based on fission not fusion (I may have that backwards) there is no waste, and a virtual unlimited source of clean power; Then hydrogen seems to be limited. At least until SERIOUS not interest funded research and development is spent on these issues, however it appears as if you have world elitists who would not gain from this, as oil makes the rich....richer.

Answer 5

I saw that on a documentary. In it they said that the Germans had known all along but hid the truth so that they did not look bad. They showed the research hidden in a museum from the Nazi era that proved the doping agent did it.

Answer 6

Who cares, I mean think about it. It was a pretty STUPID idea to transport people in a blimp that is a GIANT flammable balloon. That's like selling cars with hydrogen fuel cells that when hit from behind make an explosion that craters an entire city block...

One word....

S-T-U-P-I-D-I-T-Y

Answer 7

no, I didn't know that.