Hello Misselliet,
I'll tell you up front,,I don't know anything about your particular bike.
Never have seen one or even heard of it.
But I do know a little "In General" that I'm happy to offer.
And I apologize if it's a waste of your time.
Ok,,we cannot FIX anything over the internet.
But we can THINK.
Your bike WAS fine,is in good condition,,had No problems.
Now that has Changed to a Hard/No Cold Start Prob.
What's CHANGED?
Even in 100* dry weather ,,,an INITIAL Start-Up with engine at Ambient Temp is considered
to be Technically a "COLD START".
You did NOT have a "Technical Cold Start" Prob when weather was Warm.
What Changed was the WEATHER,,the Ambient Conditions.
Does the bike Start & Run OK upon RESTART once it's warmed up a bit?
Even in this Cooler weather?
Thats an Important Distinction to make in trouble-shooting your type prob.
If it's OK once warmed up,,,starts/idles normally,etc,,,even in cold weather,,,then it's NOT likely any actual Mechanical Fault.
Anything Mechanical would produce consistent symptoms,,whether stone cold or warmed up.
Most likely causes would be start/idle fuel-circuit restrictions.
If it happens ONLY when it's stone cold,,,
And ONLY in cold weather,,
That suggests a different set of possibilities.
Before I go further,,let me explain simply as I can why engines have Different Starting Characteristics at different temps(and I'll limit that to COLD START)
Basically,,the engine's internal parts are soo cool they act as a "heat sink",,,they literally draw enough heat away from the fuel/air mixture so that it cannot PROPERLY support Efficient Combustion.
There's a whole bag of engineering & design tricks to overcome that.
The CHOKE is the most common one,
Spark Timing/Ignition Advance variation is another.
And several methods in the Carb's fuel delivery calibration are used to Temporarily enhance conditions favorable to getting the engine running in those cold conditions.
If we tentatively ruled out Mechanical Probs,,because it seemed fine Before,,and even now once it's run a while....
And we assumed that what changed was NOT so much the Bike,,,but the WEATHER....
Let's look at how COLD weather affects the thing.
If an engine is naturally cold natured(ALLLL Engines are,,they are "Tricked">Tuned to start easy when cold)
Then what effect does a Big Gulp of COLD air have on the Chemical Combustion process?
And,,COLD fuel?
Cold AIR,Cold Fuel,going into a Cold Motor.
Not to mention Higher Humidity/Moisture that commonly accompanies Colder Weather.
Thats simply WATER,,trying to be ignited.
When Humidity is COMPRESSED it condenses.
It can actually form Beads of Water inside the motor,
And those can get on the Spark Plug,,which it does not like.
We all know,,when it's COLD,,to use the CHOKE.
Chokes are 2 basic types.
One,,simply Blocks or "Chokes" off the AIR INTAKE and increases the vacuum in the fuel circuit to inhale more Fuel.
The other,,is not a True Choke,,it just opens an auxilliary Enrichment Circuit,,,meaning it just dumps in More Fuel.
Most of us also know about "Flooding " an engine.
Allowing TOO MUCH fuel to get in.
So much that the required ratio of Fuel:Air is overbalanced,,and the Fuel simply doesnt have enough Air in the mix to Burn.
We let it "sit awhile",,,and they usually start.
The SITTING allows the Fuel to evaporate(or drain down the cylinder walls ).
It Coincidentally rebalances the Fuel:Air ratio to a Burnable Mix.
If we're cranking an engine,,,and it IS getting Fuel but Not Starting,,,
One thing were also doing is Bathing the Spark Plug in Raw,Wet Gasoline.
That Raw Wet Gasoline is known to wash any oil off the cylinder,,and swirl it around too.
So a "flooded" engine has an Oily,Slimy mix of raw,wet fuel smothering it's spark plug.
The ETHER is a interesting CLUE.
Ether is like.....???
Well,,Ya know Milk Cartons,Snack Chip Bags,Pickle Jars,etc can be VERY TUFF to Open sometimes??
Starting an engine with Ether is kinda getting a little help from a few sticks of Dynamite to open that Pickle Jar.
You can be CERTAIN,,you're gonna get those pickles outa there!
Seriously now,,Ether is just about THAT SURE FIRE and agressive in terms of it's Flammability.
It shares another similarity to Dynamite,,,which is very important to this discussion.
It does NOTHING,,,until it's IGNITED.
If You sprayed Ether in your bike,,,and it did not start on 1st Squirt/1st Try.....
You Can BET ,,it Did Not IGNITE
But why did SEVERAL Trys with the ETHER Succeed?
'Cuz...
Ether is a '"Cleaner" and a "Dryer",,,it Washed and Dried any Unburned Fuel & Oil swill off the inside of the combustion chamber.
And most Importantly,,it WASHED & DRIED the SPARK PLUG.
Then once it'd done that,,with the Very Next Spark,,Kaboom!
But WHY?????,,Did ya have to run so hard a while once it finally started??
To give it time to:
A) Warm Up
B) Burn off the oil/fuel slime all over inside of engine
C)Inhale all the fuel from the AirFilter/Intake tract which INVARIABLY gets soaked while trying to start a motor that Wont.
D)Heat Up and Burn Clean the Spark Plug
By WHY did ya have to hold it Wide Open?
'Cuz...
The Engine ain't running very fast,,even though Throttle is Wide Open.
So it cannot produce the VACUUM at that low speed to inhale more FUEL,,,
but it Sure can inhale all the clean fresh AIR it wants.
Wide Open Throttle on a Flooded Motor ,,"AIR DRIES" the inside of the engine.
Not to mention that it Naturally "Leans" the Air:Fuel ratio,,,yields More Air/Oxygen available to support combustion>RUN.
I suspect that what happened/is happening was Possibly this.
The weather is COLD enough to US to make us wanna use the Choke,,,
But it may not be quite cold enough to the MOTOR to make it want So Much choke.
Cold enough to be sensitive to Flooding,
but Not quite cold enough to want THAT much Choke.
Your question suggests many of the clues of simply a FLOODED motor.
The conditions you describe,,also suggests that it's maybe a deal where a TINY bit is all that's needed--far as Choking it to start it,,,and only for a very short time.
Those conclusions are Well supported by the idea that it Would NOT start on ETHER,,INITIALLY,,,
But,then it DID.
And,,that it ran quite raggedy once ya DID get it running.
Then it Cleaned Up,,Warmed up,,and was back to Normal???
Put some NEW Spark Plugs in it.
If You do it yourself,,,OPEN the GAP about +.005 beyond factory specs,,, for Cold Weather starting improvements.
Why?
The Plugs are not FOULED,,but are Tainted.
They have had some chemical deposition now cooked upon them which will Possibly make them more sensitive to Misfiring in ColdStart Conditions.
(Nobody ever tells anybody WHY Fresh Plugs start better in Cold Weather,,even though everybody knows they DO)
Increasing the GAP on the Sparkplugs offers 2 advantages to this.
#1,,the Increased Gap is Increased Electrical Resistance to the Spark which must Jump that Gap.
Doing that,,causes the VOLTAGE to RISE before it reaches a point where it can Discharge to Ground,,or 'SPARK"
HIGHER VOLTAGE SPARK is beneficial when trying to ignite a cold fuel/air mixture.
#2,,The WIDER GAP,,even as tiny as the increase is,,,will make the plug Physically More Resistant to having that gap BRIDGED,,or SHORTED,,,by Excess Fuel and the fuel/oil slime,,,that sloshes around inside the motor when it's Cold.
New Plugs,,Gap 'em a little wider,,and EASY on the CHOKE next time.
** I dunno what kind/brand of Spark Plugs you use.
Even for each certain Specification,,there's a variety of Types & features available.
Platinum Tipped Plugs typically give improved results in Starting,and especially in Cold Starting.
They're a bit more expensive than "Standard Spark Plugs",,,but are probably worth considering
*** Another thing that is worth trying,,it's Cheap and can't hurt,,even if it doesn't help....
Get a Small bottle of Fuel INJECTION CLEANER,,the kind that you pour into the gas tank of cars.
Get the cheapest one you find,,Dollar Tree has it,,most "everything's a $1" type stores do,,,Walmart,etc,etc...and any Auto Parts.
But be CERTAIN the Bottle says "FUEL INJECTION CLEANER".
Not Gas Additive.
Not Carb Cleaner.
F.I.Cleaner is NAPTHA based,,perfectly compatible with any/all fuel system materials but VERY aggresive as a solvent against fuel system deposits.
Your '87 has a lot of YEARS of being soaked in gasoline.
The surfaces accumulate "stuff" just like tubs & toilets get bathtub ring.
The orifices & passages in Your Bike's carb are Soo Small ,,You'd be amazed to wonder How Do They DO that?!
It's beyond watch-like precision.
Any deposits,,even just "discoloration" can have a substantial effect on the Calibrations.
The Start and Idle and Low Speed fuel circuitry is VERY tiny and sensitive.
For $1~5,,,It's worth a try,,and You'll know Your carb's innards are clean as can be without a professional disassembly &cleaning.
FUEL INJECTION CLEANER,,any brand,,whatever's cheap.
3~4 Ounces to a gallon.
8~10 oz bottle in a couple gallons of gasoline...it don't matter much,,a little More is better than too little(but only in terms of how fast it works,mostly)
Try this Drill for Cold Starting:
*Apply Choke
*Hold Throttle Wide Open
*Crank a Few SECONDS ( maybe 5seconds +/-??,,but BRIEFLY)
*Turn Choke OFF
*Crank Again
--Try using whatever Your Bike usually Likes far as Throttle Opening,,Wide Open,,Closed,,whatever Usually Works for "Normal Starting"
--if that doesn't yield reliable Cold Starting,,EXPERIMENT with Full Open,,Closed,1/2 throttle,,etc,etc
--It WILL DEFINITELY prefer some particular throttle opening
*Then when ya get it to fire,,,GRADUALLY roll the throttle closed but enough to keep it running.
Engine will clean-up and warm up faster at lower throttle,,than from trying to "Rev it Up".
Many folks dont realize that even though the RPMs may be Higher ,,the Throttle is open WIDER on a Cold Motor than normal.
That allows TOO Much Air and is Too Lean to warm up quickly and settle into normal operation.
You're "AIR WASHING" the engine,,when it Needs the extra fuel to get going.
Carb engines,aircooled engines,,they're better than ever about starting,,but they Still can require each their own personal little starting ritual.
that may not be how things SHOULD be.
But if it IS,,then it is...?
New Plugs,,
GOOD Plugs,,increase the gap on any of your choices,
dope it with some FUEL INJECTION cleaner just because it'll love ya for doing it * can't hurt,,,
Then EASY on the Choke.
If it dont start quick with just a little choke at first,,
Try it AGAIN with just a little choke,,then open choke and crank it.
If it's hard to start,,and Not starting,,Too Much Choke is ONLY EVER gonna simply Flood it more/worse.
One final thing....
*Take your spark plug caps off the plugs
*Hold the actual WIRE/Cable tightly in one hand
*Tug LIGHTLY on the Hard Plastic Cap itself,,like You're trying to pull the Plug Connector Off the end of the wire.
(A Moderate tug,,about like you'd use taking a snug ring off your finger,,,Dont try to RIP it off ...You CAN/WILL:)
* And DO NOT Pull on the CABLE,,,Just the Plug Connector
* If it Does Slip off the wire with MODEST Tug,,,GOOD!!,,You've found a condition that should be remedied.
Those Connectors actually SCREW onto the cable and are supposed to be VERY solidly attatched.
Theres a Threaded Spike inside the Connector which threads into the actual Cable.
It makes a solid electrical connection,and securely attaches the Cable/Connector.
If it DOES come off in your hand,,,Do This..
*Use some Good Wire Cutting Pliers
*SNIP about 3/8",,,(or,about the width of a pencil) off the END of the wire,,,make sure the cable/wire end is left reasonably "clean" after cutting with None of the inner wire strands sticking out
* Push Connector onto Cable till You feel some resistance.
It will Slide in a ways,,then it will get to the threaded spike--that's the felt resistance
* Begin to Gently Push AND Turn the Connector Clockwise.
You are actually Screwing the Connector Back onto the Cable.
It takes several turns,,but eventually it will "get tight"
That's it,,You're done
* You can look at the Original end before Cutting and if the Connector just Slipped Off,,You'll see a "big" empty HOLE in the cable's end.
Compare it to the look AFTER You've trimmed it.
Basically NO hole in center,,bur some brite shiny wire strands packed tightly in the cable's core/center.
You can also look at the piece of Cable ya just cut Off.
Just a Big,Empty Hole most probably.
The cut-off piece usually looks more like a piece of Hose than electrical wire.
That Deteriorated Connection you just repaired is sorta weird.
It defies the deal about "More Resistance raises Voltages".
It's just a BAD connection,,gets carbonized from the arcing,,and becomes such a feeble ectrical path it cannot carry the AMPERAGE the plug needs to fire properly.
It's a simple ,silly thing,,but I've seen proper treatment improve a variety of conditions.
Besides,,it's just RIGHT to have a good cable/connector connection.
On the typical Japanese bike plug connectors of that era,,,
that deteriorated condition is almost Universal after a couple years.
Trim it to Fresh Cable,,screw on the plug cap,,and it's good as new in a minute or less,,,for Free:)
Anyway,,I dont know if You read this far,,or at all.
I Wish I Really Knew Exactly what the prob is,,cuz i'd sure like to know You're enjoyng your bike.
If it was mine,,those are the things I'd try first.
It's just kinda GENERIC stuff that commonly occurs.
Good Luck,,and Be Careful!!
2006-10-12 16:40:08
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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