With the latest and apparently reliable tally, 650,000 Iraqi civilians dead since the war, do you?

Question

still believe the Iraqis are better off than they were before BUSH invaded, better off without Sadam, who seemed able to control insurgency and also if you do think so, why?

PS> THis number just released.

Answer 1

This is a very high estimate of deaths, but it's based on scientific methods of surveying. One thing I will say is that Burnham, who did this survey, counted 100,000 dead 18 months after the US invasion, and this figure is now accepted by many. In many wars, the rule of thumb is that estimated numbers of deaths keep going up as more records are uncovered during peacetime. For the Holocaust, early estimates were 2,3, and 4 million Jews killed. Later 6 million became the accepted figure.

Others will undoubtedly bring up the Iraq body count site maintained by someone in Britain. This 45000 is based on the number of deaths reported in the newspapers, not on a statistic from the Iraq Health Ministry. Even they admit that it grossly underreports the deaths, but for a while, this was the only count made of civilian deaths, the US simply did not count them!

Are Iraqi's better off without Saddam? Cons want you to believe there was a preinvasion insurgency. There wasn't. And large scale crimes against ethnic groups ended at least 10 years prior. Iraq was at peace before the invasion. Sure, it was a police state, but there was very little violence. That's what you get with a police state-- low crime! There was a slow economy, but high employment and school enrollment. Now there are as many as 500 violent deaths per day, 65-75% are out of work, and many children no longer attend school.

A country with a very low murder rate is now a killing field because of US intervention. Our troops are dying every day, for what? Their presence is just making the situation worse. Adding troops to Baghdad has INCREASED the murder rate; more death squads prowl than ever before.

The US will have accomplished nothing in the end. Peaceful cities have been turned into rubble and thousands have died. We will be leaving them with a civil war. 70% of the people being killed now are dying as a result of Iraqi vs. Iraqi violence. If that isn't a civil war, what is?

It is still heresy to say Iraq was better off with Saddam in power. But in what way is it a better now? How would the 655,000 dead Iraqis, or the nearly 2800 US soldiers answer this question?

Answer 2

I'm not sure if its a reliable number yet.

since families are living in bombed out husks for housing and now have no water or electricity and everyday fear an insurgent is going to come and threaten that if they dont give up what homes they have they will be killed... I'd have to say at the present time... No they are not better off... theres no doubt about it these people are being executed but insurgents and who knows who else...

I think the big idea is only time will tell and there regime places emphasis on the FUTURE of iraq... but its going to be forever and a day untill they rebiuld their lives and some may never be able to if it even happens in thier lifetime.

Just because there is no body does not mean someone is probably alive tho... the police will tell you that after someone has been missing for a certain period of time... why should it be different for the missing member of these peoples families... sure theres a chance that they may have just up and joined insurgents... they should change the poll to say "missing and dead" they dont say soldiers are dead without having a body for many political and homestead reasons... but how many long missing soldiers ever reappear? id like to know the answer to that question.

Answer 3

Reliable? I seriously doubt it. The war in Iraq has been going on about three years. IF you can do the math you will find out that means the average death rate for iraqis would have to be around 600 a day. 600 in one day has never been reported.

I know our troops aren't killing nearly that many. A heavy day of combat would result in less than a tenth of that number. And the vast majority of those would be insurgent combatants. That means IF the story is true (which I seriously doubt) it must be the insurgents that are doing the majority of the killing. Do you want us to quit fighting insurgents?

Sure Saddam squelched dissent. You disagree with him and he gassed the village. Just ask the Kurds what happened.

PS The number is bogus!

Answer 4

to cite the speech from Ron Paul in the link under: "What if some day it dawns on us that dropping over 5,000 American protection tension workers in the midsection East on account that 9/11 isn't a honest commerce off for the shortcoming of almost 3,000 American civilians, no remember what proportion Iraqi, Pakistani and Afghan all human beings is killed or displaced? What if occupying worldwide places like Iraq and Afghanistan and bombing Pakistan is quickly bearing directly to the hatred directed in the direction of us? .......What whether this is ultimately realised that conflict and protection tension spending is often damaging to the financial equipment? What if all wartime spending is paid for in the process the deceitful and evil technique of inflating and borrowing? .......What if the yank human beings wakened and understood that the genuine 'motives' for going to conflict are only approximately continuously in accordance with LIES and promoted by making use of conflict propaganda with a view to serve particular hobbies? .......What if Obama has no purpose of leaving Iraq? What if a protection tension draft is being planned for, for the wars which will unfold if our foreign places coverage isn't replaced? What if the yank human beings found out the fact, that our foreign places coverage has not something to do with national secure practices, and that it in no way transformations from one administration to the subsequent? What if conflict and education for conflict is a racket, serving the particular interest? What if Christianity definitely teaches PEACE, and not 'preventative' wars of agression? What if international kin is discovered to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting us of a of america?......" Now this is a real American Patriot! As for my very own opinion, the conflict for Iraq replaced into already planned and the particular interest communities have been only fishing around for an excuse to attack. it would in no way have passed off, and has been a tragic and poor waste of existence.

Answer 5

Although I don't agree with our government's position on policing the world, I do think the Iraqis are better off without Saddam in power. Besides the negatives we hear, there have been some good things that have come from his fall of power (i.e. voting procedures, female dress).

I also wanted to add that the Army's latest press release states that we will stay in the Middle East until 2010. Unbelievable!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_5;_ylt=AmQGniaf.SXPKcoXQe2EQgVX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Answer 6

Here is a link to the numbers. Reading the story explains the falacy behind them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraqi_death_toll

The key is:

"The September numbers come as a controversial new study contends that nearly 655,000 Iraqis have died in the three-year-old conflict in Iraq — more than 10 times higher than other independent estimates of the toll.

The study, published Thursday on the Web site of The Lancet, a medical journal, was based on a survey of households in Iraq, not a body count, and quickly raised skepticism among some Iraq experts."

So the people who are quoted in the Lancet talked to people rather then actually count the bodies. If so many people are dead where did the bodies go? Why can't the Iraqi government account for the corpses.

Read entire articles, not just headlines.

In tribal societies people tend to live near family. So they go to every house and hear 100 families say they lost an uncle. The Lancet counts that as 100 deaths, but they are all related, it could be 10 deaths, or less. It is a faulty study, hence the reason it is "controversial".

Answer 7

I believe this number to be accurate. The method used was known to work in Kosovo and other places, when later proved against body counts. But what does it matter whether is 250,000 or 450,000 or 100,000 - they are currently living in HELL. Before they could go to school and study, go to the market and buy groceries, all without fear. Now the can barely leave their homes, where they are held captive by the war.

To me this proves BUSH to be one of the worst WAR CRIMINALS of our time. He should be IMPEACHED NOW by the American people. We are all silent witness to this massive destruction and by our continued silence and failure to get rid of BUSH, now, we are endorsing senseless murder.

I am not sure how to right the wrong, but I am sure that we should not wait for the next election to get BUSH out of the Whitehouse. He is irrepsonsible and a criminal, by any International Standards. We cannot depend on his thinking to do anything but exacerbate this mess.

Answer 8

We in the West have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to say that the Iraqis are better off without Saddam. That is up to the Iraqi people.
No matter how screwed up the country is, we have no right to pre-emptively invade somebody else's country.

Answer 9

I never thought they were better of with saddam gone.
Of course they will say the number of dead iraqis is a lie thought up by the biased liberal media, to bring comfort to terrorists and incite rage in terrorists, because the liberal media hates george bush and would say anything to bring him down and if you dont support the war in iraq, then you support terrorists and you dont deserve to live in america and you should go live in _______
Fill in the blank with whatever country the conservatives are told is evil this week, I cant keep up with all the nonsense they spew after all.

Answer 10

This is not a lie. CNN has just reported it and has revealed the method that was used. They are also reporting it is a reliable method of calculation. My question is, why has the US government failed to give weekly and revised numbers and if they have, what method to calculate do they use. They Judge the life of iraqia as better and thats the LIE. Its horrendous!