South Africans - any hope at all?

Question

The more I read and see about what used to be South Africa, the worse it gets.
Rampant AIDS. Rampant crime. Uncontrolled illegal immigration from worse places (can you imagine) like Zimbabwe.
An ineffectual so-called police force. A corrupt Marxist government (is there any other kind of Marxist government?)
Inner city squalor. Once busy and productive areas (Hillbrow, downtown Jo'burg), reduced to rubble.
Roads and cities falling apart.
Where once your allies were the US and Israel - now they're China, Cuba, Zimbabwe - any totalitarian regime that imprisons its own citizens.

Okay - this isn't my usual 'negativity'. Tell me - logically and realistically - is there hope? Will things get better?
Could the responsibility of hosting the World Cup turn things around?
Can the ANC get its act together?

Anria - I'm not attacking you, but why must you guys continually whitewash this issue and pretend it's just as bad in other places?

When Eastern Europe fell from Communism, the Socialist economies were in shreds. That's what Socialism/Communism does economically (look at yourselves).

When South Africa was handed to the thugs in the ANC, despite years of sanctions, SA had the only viable economy in Africa. And a fairly robust one at that.

Moreover, it had a first world infrastructure and a semblance of law and order.
Sanctions had actually forced SA to create oil from coal technologies (Sasol), and had forced SA to create the most formidable military in Africa.
There were the natural resources - diamonds, gold - and outpouring of financial aid from countries that previously shunned SA.

But things have only gone downhill, and it's always apartheid's fault.

At what point do the criminals running SA take responsibility to the gift that was handed to them?

tay jen - you will never have a new government. The thugs in the ANC will never give up power.

Guys - apartheid will always be kept around as a whipping boy.

pixie 121 - because, like you, I was born in South Africa, and a part of me will always love SA.
It pains me to see devils disguised as angels destroying the place of my birth.

The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Malan - you're only 17? You write with a maturity and insight way beyond your years.
Yours is the generation that I most feel sorry for. You grew up in this hellhole, you have nothing to compare it to. And you only have the ANC's revised version of history to go by.
There was apartheid, yes, but at one time there were also very safe streets, a working economy, cities that functioned and like it or not, at that time the blacks in South Africa had the best living standards in Africa.

A Coloured friend of mine summed the situation up for me, he said, "The whites are now the blacks, the blacks are now the whites, and we're still k***irs."

dWali - dit was nie te erg nie vir die moffies toe ek in die Weermag was. Hulle was die susters van die eenheid.

And that is something that has always stunned me about America; how homophobic it is here.
Trust me, comparitively speaking, even under apartheid you never had a hard time.
South African men are not that hung up on their sexuality.

Housing - oh, you mean the shanty towns that are springing up everywhere.
As well as the housing for the prostitutes, drug dealers and illegal immigrants in what used to be Hillbrow's residential area.

Healthcare - so well organized and dispensed by the ANC that people are dying in record numbers of AIDS.
The ANC's response?
Our old friend, Tshabalala-Msimang telling everyone to eat beetroot and garlic.

Education - surely you don't mean SA's ever plummeting school system?

Friendly relations with your neighbours - didn't 'Saint" Mandela invade Lesotho in '98?

Yes, I can see how much better things are.

lindarone - got bad news. The rest of the world doesn't care about you anymore, because now it's blacks oppressing other blacks and whites.
People only pay attention when the white man is at fault.

glynis 18 - so now there IS a crime problem. It'll take a lot more than 10 people. The ANC is no better than the thugs in the streets.

glynis18 - I am trying to get another 10 involved. What do you think I'm doing here?

glynis18 - it is no longer a privilege to be born white in what used to be South Africa, and it ceased to be a privilege here in the States some forty odd years ago.
Mind you, being a white South African male under apartheid meant one had the 'privilege' of going to the military for two years, whether you liked it or not, and the 'privilege' of being called up for camps every year, whether you liked it or not.

Glynis, you don't have a crime 'problem', you have a crime epidemic.
And, aside from their Marxist/Totalitarian politics - enough to label them as thugs - leading figures of the ANC - Jacob Zuma, Winnie Mandela (the mother of the nation - please), Zanele Mbeki etc - always seem to be on trial for things ranging from rape, murder, embezzlement etc -and always being found not guilty.
Go figure.

You're a 'coloured'? What did the ANC ever do for you between the embezzlement, murder, rape and finger pointing at the Afrikaner?

glynis18 - you just answered your own question - "I'm not black enough".
The whites are now the blacks, the blacks are now the whites and you're still a k***ir - in the eyes of the monsters running what used to be South Africa.
So you went to the school of your choice, and you went to the University of your choice - but you're not black enough.

How are you better off?

Any Marxist based ideology is based on thuggery.
Anyone who tells you different is themselves a thug at heart.

Chiclid - Nee, soos ek tevore gese het, daar is geen hoop in die situasie nie.

Maar - soos ek ook oor en oor gese het, en van julle het miskien daroor gelag en ook grappies gemaak daaroor, VIGS sal die opgevok situasie verander.

En vinniger as u dink dit sal.

Answer 1

I will do my best to make SA the best place ever. If I do not succeed, at least I will not be part of the group who tried their best to sink the ship - especially some expats who makes it their profession to bad-mouth SA.

Being a 17-year old, I can see the progress the younger generation makes in terms of racial relationships. It's really not funny to see white and colored kids taking hands and make fun about the past etc. No, the government isn't doing their part to help the progress, but at the end it's up to us to reconciliate! I disagree that cities fall apart.

Hillbrow is a mess, but what about Sandton and Cape Town CBD where business apartments are revamped into luxurious residential units @ up to R12 million per unit? V&A Waterfront was also bought for R7 billion recently. Roads are getting worse, it's a concern, but it's at least way better than other African countries. The World Cup will be an amazing marketing tool for SA. I personally think we'll host a relalitvely successful cup. People WILL be surprised. Even the new coach of Bafana said that people are in for a surprise as well as German architects and the manager of Man United.

About the ANC getting their act together... only time will tell... It seems as if they're more worried about the exodus of skilled whites... Tito Mboweni, head of SA Reserve Bank, said this week that he 'like his Afrikaners' and that he don't think Affirmative action is a good thing. So yeah, lets hope the ANC get their act together... Until then, I'll keep my act together and help build SA to a great country it so truly deserves!

Answer 2

There is hope for South Africa, but we would need to start looking past the black & white situation. White's can't survive without the blacks nor can the blacks survive without the white.

Black & White should stand together and respect each other, but they are not and that's why South Africa is going down the dumps.

The Black's should forget about the "Apartheid" thing and the White's should except that the Black's are in charge of the country. So let's all work together and make a better South Africa for everyone

Answer 3

Brad, I give you your biggest challenge to date, "Try to write something positive". I know you said this is not your usual negativity and I understand what you are trying to say, but how about phrasing it like this "What can we do to improve the situation? Let's all get actively involved in improving it and stop sitting on our backsides and moan"?

Yes, we do have problems. Big ones in fact! I dont think people are burying their heads in the sand at all. But with all the negativity on the news, people dont want to come on here and read it on Yahoo too!

I left the country for work. I was extremely upset at the time. My husband and I are thinking of returning (he is not South African), but the crime rate is putting us off. However, having said that, I would do anything to improve the situation. I am very hopeful that if 10 of us get together, try something, get another 10 involved and carry on that way, something can be done!

Edit to add: Of course there is a crime problem, I never said there wasn't! I just don't agree with the constant slagging off that you are doing. Do something positive, for christsake!

Why do you continue to call the ANC thugs? Not all of us were privelleged to be born white. Some of us grew up with a bit of colour and were humiliated and abused by the Apartheid government. Is it because Apartheid is over and the whites are no longer the rulers of the country that you continue this? Please note, I am simply trying to understand your statement.

Yes, it will take more than 10. But what I was trying to say, was with 10, it will turn into 20, then 40, etc etc.

If you propose something, I will join in!

Edit: So, then all the other politians who are Marxists are thugs? Interesting...

Yes, I am coloured. What have they done for me!? Well, I was able to go to any high school after Apartheid ended. I was able to go to any university. Apply for any job. hmmm... let's see, what else... I can go to any beach, sit on any bench. I could go on forever.

Yes, it is not a privilege to be born white now, but before, it was. And unfortunately, during Apartheid, I was not white enough, now I am not black enough. But the reality is, that we live in a cruel world and if I continue moaning about it, I will only get more and more depressed about it. So, instead, I try to concentrate on the positive. It does wonders for me...

Answer 4

I think the biggest problem faced by South Africa today is the fact that the balck people do not want to accept any assistance for the "oppressive" whites.

For them, it's a matter of pride. Yes they are trying to reform the country, but with ill equipped, inexperienced people. The whites still have a lot to offer to this country and if they (blacks) keep alienating us, then yes, the country is heading for disaster.

I personally don't think that South Africa is ready to host the World Cup. Yes, it willbring in international revenue and yes it will create jobs, but how sustainable will that money those jobs be?

They only way I think that South Africa has any hope is that we, as South Africans, stop seeing each other in black and white. We should see each other as South African, everybody has something that can bebefit the country. We should stop blaming appartheid for everything, it's 2006, 12 years since the fall of apartheid and still whites are blamed. I say we should just get over it and start trying to work together to improve our current situation.

Answer 5

If you go to the ANC site and look at the qualifications of Government ( or lack of them) then you quickly come to the conclusion that the inmates are running the Asylum. They all live in the past and the words Apartheid or the struggle which they use at every opportunity is a convenient excuse for lack of competence. I fail to see anything tangible that has been achieved in South Africa since 1994. The Economy is fragile since it is based on Foreign Investors and Consumer spending. There are no new Factories and Businesses generating job growth happening and as soon as Investors get a jitter about SA the currency falls through the floor. Consorting with Communist Regimes and the pariahs of the World does South Africa no good. It may be good for Mbeki's ego to thumb his nose at the West but then again he has hardly got a reputation for getting things right ( Remember how he ridiculed delegates to the Durban AIDS conference). Unemployment runs at 40%, the AA says they need to spend R40billion fixing the roads,crime is out of control,education standards have been substantially lowered and their is a problem with violence amongst school kids,Government Hospitals are a disgrace with a huge shortage of nurses and Medical Practitioners, Public Services are bedevilled with corruption,discriminatory employment laws and BEE,a generally useless Police Force and a Judiciary in disarray and to some extent racism in the form of revenge against Whites. So will it get better? Can it get worse?
The approach to the World Cup is absolutely sick. Not a thought of can we make it a successful Tournament. Just how much money can we make and primarily from the Tourist Industry who will deny there is any serious crime problem in SA. FIFA have made a big mistake in sending it to SA and I believe they will rectify that next year. In any event the locals cannot afford the price of the tickets and once SA go out they will not go to any of the other matches. In any Country that has hosted the World Cup there has been no sustainable industry that has flowed therefrom. Why would SA be any different? They will be left with a few Stadiums which they will not be able to make profitable and will end up being White elephants. A million Whites have left SA in the last 10 years. After 2010 their will be a mass exodus excepting for those who cannot for one reason or another. ( age,wealth etc). By the nature of the politics of the ANC,South Africa stands at the crossroads. If it continues to go down the Iran,Russia and China route then it will spell disaster.

Answer 6

I hope that the World Cup would turn things around, but we can only wait and see. For the first 10 years after Apartheid ended, we felt that the government had to sort out all the old problems, before it could move on with the new, but this is taking longer than anyone reckoned, but then again who's to say how much time a country needs?
Look at Eastern Europe (especially Hungary lately) communism ended there, a short while before apartheid ended in SA, and none of those countries have gotten there act together. Even Germany, after Socialism ended, took almost two decades, before getting itself back into the global economy. (That's why so many Germans and Austrians left in the 50's for places like SA, they felt there was no hope, and look at Germany now in comparison to SA)
I guess we can only sit back and wait.
My greatest fear is SA turning into a complete basket case, like Zim. But on the other hand, our other neighbours, like Botswana and Namibia are never in the news (and despite the Aids in Botswana) they have taken good care of themselves, so we might still turn for the best.

Answer 7

First I must ask dWali to plse wake up!!!!!!!!! Do u think that discrimination is only in the bad old S.A. Go to any other country in Europa and u will find it´s the same all over! Straight men and woman mostly do not like moffies or lesbians, they complain about blacks in their countries, in general they have become worst racists than the south Africans. Why would we invade Lesotho, Angola, Mozambique etc. if its worse there than in S.A.?. You may also remember that there was never a problem with schools, the kids used to burn them down faster than they could be built!

If all young people act and feel like Malan then I have hope. But it is time for everybody to do something. The world were against us we fixed what was wrong. Now we suffer and they do not do any thing. The UN is not happy with Aids in Africa, poverty or crime. Why don´t they force the government to do something like they did before?

When last ha anyone been to Vereeniging centre? It looks like n ghost town at night no streetlights and I am sure 90% of the people living there are black. It never used to be like that. Why does it look like that now?

Answer 8

*South African followers.. anymore hopes after yet another undesirable day....? all and various meant to have ho[pes speciallybetter communities *kiwis make your existence deficult .eh? overwhelmed by using kiwis ok....yet by using Bangladeshi is concerns lil bit! *cricket is a humorous interest .? that malkes cricket warmer much extra! *sometime you at the instant are not any.a million team? ya, it became a shortest of tenure *next day you're in simple terms between undemanding? this is the character of cricket *what up..? each and every thing is each and every thing *who have been given your tongue..?. A cat have been given

Answer 9

I do not think there is any hope now, it will take a few generations to either build the country back up or turn it into another Rhodesia. At this point AIDS might be a silent saviour.

Answer 10

Things are MUCH better than what they were in the Apartheid years. We provide healtcare, housing and education to the WHOLE population, not just a few whites. A MOFFIE like myself are not a criminal, merely for loving another man. Everyone can travel where they want to. We do not invade our neighbours (Angola, LEsotho, Namibia).

Things are a MILLION times better and getting better every day.

I am a WHITE MALE AFRIKANER.