Forced to believe something?

Question

Is it possible to make (using physical force or otherwise) someone believe something that is not true? In the book 1984 by George Orwell the protagonist is caught for plotting against the system (Big Brother dictatorship) and then is tortured until he believes 100% that 2 plus two equals 5.
Does anyone think that it would be possible for people to change their beliefs about anything?

I am looking for philisophical answers from all age groups rather than religious crap from preachers

Answer 1

I see from the answers already posted here that there is a consensus on this and examples, possibilities galore have been provided. Let me, on my part, try to analyze why.

How does a child get to believe anything before it has learnt any language? It can not be brainwashed through words. It is actually brainwashed through action. It sees that shaking the toy makes nice sound. It sees this being done several times. It then believes that and learns to do the same on its own.

When we perceive through our senses, it is an information to our brain. The next perception is compared in our brain with the previous one to see if it is the same or different. Then it becomes two different information or two times the same information. When the same information keeps repeating again and again, it becomes knowledge. Therefore, when we see sun rising every morning, we believe we know that the sun once again will rise the next morning.
The key to creating a belief is repetition without change. Similarly, the key to discarding a belief is repetitive occurrence of another belief that is logically different from it. How much of repetitive confirmation or rejection is required to install another belief would of course depend on the strength of the previous belief.

Answer 2

It happens all of the time -- sometimes in more direct ways than others. But those who are providing misinformation also usually provide psychological "stuff" to go with it. Abusive people do this to their victims, in such a way that the victim thinks that it's their fault, and that they deserve to be punished -- though in moments of clarity, may wonder why they put up with it.

Governments do this too -- telling people that they are looking out for everyone's best interest "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" -- and yes, sometimes they may have the best interests of their constituents in mind, other times they may not...

Beliefs can be changed, but sometimes it takes a huge experieince to jolt people back to reality. (This can work in the reverse as well -- a huge experience is used to create a false reality...)

If people hear the same misinformation over and over, people believe that it's true, unless they already are skeptical of events. That is why some people believe everything they've been told about the 2000 or 2004 elections or 911 by the mainstream media, and why others are skeptical, and do not (and are usually called "conspiracy crackheads" or some other deogatory term by those who "believe" inequivicably in their government.)

In the following links I've posted extreme opposites -- some people will believe one over the other and completely disregard the other (not even looking at it, looking at the content, downloading the information) -- others will read/investigate both sides -- still others will completely ignore the links, knowing that "their" belief is the correct belief. We cannot change anyone's beliefs by encouraging people to look at all viewpoints.... even if everyone who reads this answer visits and investigates the links stays the same in his/her belief structure, at least they've opened him/herself up to something they may not have considered before -- whether it is a religious belief, a dietary belief, a political belief, an educational belief.

But bottom line, unless a person is open to a shift, sometimes a shift of large proportions (The Santa Myth, the Tooth Fairy Myth, etc.) -- and is willing to accept that shift (Who cares that Santa is really mom and dad as long as I get presents I don't care), then we will continue to live in our own little worlds...

the bottom line is that to live together in harmony, we don't need to all believe the same thing - eat the same food -- worship in the same way -- go to the same schools.... etc., etc. but we do need to know and understand why we have the beliefs we do -- as well as understand why others may have differing beliefs than our own. And know that this is ok, and isn't a threat to who we are, or how we function in the world.

Answer 3

That's very interesting. I've never heard of the book, I'll check it out. But in response to your question, dependent on how long and severe the torture was, I believe that a persons natural defense is to live. So if he wasn't faking it just to end the torture, then sure. But I also believe that if you have endured something for any long duration of time, that if it is pounded into your brain, that it is almost impossible not to leave some scaring. It's more or less a self defense mechanism. But if it is a very young person that is very easily controlled or manipulated then it would be easy to do. That's why we have to be very careful as parents to set good examples and teach them right, because the damage that can be done is not easily erased.

Answer 4

It is not belief but brain washing under tremendous stress or torture -- making a person to enter into a compromise -- like the churches did in the Medieval age, like many religious sects did in the past by way of sword. Hence, your questions suggests brain washing or compromise and not belief.

Another point, belief is also blind, which a child from its early childhood is made to believe -- its conditioning. It obstructs one's creativity and right thinking.

Dhyana or Jhana is a system, which makes one realise one’s nature without any scriptures, rituals, dogmas, philosophy, religion or indoctrination. Its purpose is to integralise and bring out the wisdom inherent in one's nature. One should have faith in oneself rather than relying on society, nation, political leaders, preachers ,etc.

Wisdom is not the product of some kind of discursive mentation but is the sundering of the chain, the stopping of the process.

Reality is neither subjective nor objective but chains of thoughts attempt to make it one or the other.

The real man is beyond both. So one should try to go beyond all contraries, beliefs, conditioning by society, etc. to become totally integral and creative in a positive sense.

Answer 5

just to help u: do you ever want to hold a job?
do the math! first there really isn't any gravity, nope you know what hold the earth in place, everybody sucks, that right it's called the pecking order and it works just fine it is everywhere and it is no where you can't see it most of the time but you are looking down the throat of lock-step-methodologies you want to stay here and work well you have to learn the rules, yadda, yadda, you will force your self to believe what ever they want you to believe just to keep your job cause the rules have changed for the worse the are 38 people who can do your job just wait at any unemployment office with more skills than you have just from being displaced from the back flood of dropping jobs and less company expansions. you have to find the reason they do IT and put an Apple out just far enough away from your self that you just can't quit reach it and fallow that apple and get lost for say forty or fifty years and then they give you a gold watch and retire you, so you are the force and you will be among your own worst enemie yourself, smile it drives them crazy

Answer 6

it is possible to convince people to change their beliefs about anything with the right persuasion.

as for torturing until you believe something... i don't know about that. if i were to be remotely tortured, i will tell you that 2+2=5 and be as convincing as i need to be.

however, since you bring up religion, that is different. people feel so strongly about their own religious beliefs, or lack thereof, that they will give up their lives and have given up their lives for their beliefs.

religion is different than math, and one could convince me of something as long as it makes sense to me in every area but religion. reason being, religion isn't presented in a factual manner to humans, which is the whole point. so, telling me that my religion is wrong won't go very far.

i guess if you starve someone enough then you could make them temporarily believe something though because they aren't functioning properly. once they are restored they should change their opinion back. but it was never truly, consciously believing with full abilities.

Answer 7

NO, its not possible to change people's believes.
If you force them, they can pretend.
But you can't change their believes.

Yes, you can make them to believe in something.

Its two diffrent things, change someone's believe and
make them to believe in something.

You can make to believe any ignorant person,
But you can't make to believe to a person, who is fully aware,
who is fully conscious.

I put you an example

If you ask a theist, do you believe that GOD exist?
His answer will be yes, and very authoritative.
And then you ask him, how do you know?
Have you ever had cup of tea with him?
or just a little talk? or have you just seen him from the far?
His answer will be no.
You ask him than how do you know about his existence?
Yes, I know, I know from my family, from my forefathers.

And if you ask the same question to an atheist
Do you believe that GOD exists?
His answer will be no.and very authoritative.
You can ask him how he can be so authoritative.
His answer will all my life I know that god doesn't exist.
And my family,and forefathers all know this.

They both are believers.

Then there is a third person,A real person, A honest person.
You ask him, Do you believe that God exists?
His answer will be, I don't know
I don't know if exists or not. I can't argue about it. I am searching. When my search
will finish, I will answer your question.

Yes, people can change their believes by their own enquiry in
concern subject of their interest.

I answer your question, as I understood your question
according to my understanding.
Important question

Thx

Answer 8

I do believe that it is possible for some one to manipulate your train of thought if that is what you mean. Anyone could be brain washed and pain and suffering could lead anyone to believing something is true when indeed it is not. I don't however, think that it would be changing their beliefs as much as their thought process on the matter at hand.

Answer 9

It sounds like mostly what they were using is brain washing. Although I'm not entirely sure you actually could do that to someone and make it work, people have tried before. Another alternative is hypnosis. Under hypnosis you can convince some guy his name is anything from the Queen of Sheba to Annie. The power of suggestion... my brother is a hypnotist, and one of his favorites is to make people forget numbers for a short period of time.

Answer 10

Not change, Mold. If you mean instantanious change, like zzZap:: I'm a Hindu, then no. If you mean Disney-fication through mass-media over ("x" # of) years, then ::golly::, absolutely. All around us. Every day. Advertising companies have spent a bigillion dollars on psychologists and so on trying to figure out how to subvert the minds of consumers.

See: Noam Chomsky