What is an ESTABLISHMENT of a RELIGION? Prayer in school? Ten Commandments in public?

Question

The Myth of Separation: What is the correct relationship between Church and State? written by David Barton gives an excellent example of how liberalism has taken what the Founding Fathers original intent was and turning it around to mean just the opposite in today’s modern America. The answer can be easily understood by knowing the exact definition of “religion” in which Barton gives the original 1828 Webster’s meaning of the word:
RELIGION. Includes a belief in the being and perfection’s of God, in the revelation of his will to man, and in man’s obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man’s accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties... the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion. (30)

This definition makes five distinctions that would totally destroy the present day understanding of the First Amendment. Satanism, secular humanism, and atheism would not be included within the Supreme Courts definition of religion because these belief systems do not feel an obligation to God.
An establishment of religion does not exist without fulfilling the requirements of a religion: a creed; rites and ordinances; ministers; and tests. In light of this prayer in school is not an establishment of a religion. By using government charts (see inserts) Barton exposes the traumatic affect taking prayer out of schools has had on the United States. The Constitution use to be interpreted under the philosophy of natural and divine law. In the past century many Constitutional decisions have been made under the philosophies of legal relativism and positivism.

The Courts express these philosophies with the attitude:
1.There are no objective, God-given standards of law, or it there are, they are irrelevant to the modern legal system.
2.Since God is not the author of law, the author of law must be man; it is law simply because the highest human authority, the state, has said it is law and is able to back it up.
3.Since man and society evolve, law must evolve as well.
4.Judges, through their decisions, guide the evolution of law.
5.To study law, get at the original sources of law -- the decisions of judges; hence most law schools today use the “case law” method of teaching law. (Myth 204)

David Barton points out that it wasn’t until Abington v. Schempp in 1963, that, “the Court made its first open and absolute repudiation of the Bible ... in public affairs.” His book America: To Pray or Not To Pray? gives a comprehensive look at how this philosophy and rejection of God’s will has affected the whole American society.

WHAT AURORA DAWN FAILS TO RECOGNIZE IS THAT THE USA HAD CHRISTIANITY ROOTED IN ITS GOVERNMENTAL FABRIC. IT IS ONLY RECENT THAT SECULARIST BOOTED RELIGION OUT OF GOVT.

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aubry6535...About Me
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All the founding fathers wanted was freedom of religion. They did want the state setting religions parameters or a single state recognized religion that was the only religion allowed. Such as Britain and France had at the time. They did not want the State in religion, they had no problem with religion in the state. They would have had no problem with the ten commandments in the Court, or a Koran, or prayer in school. They started the practice of prayer in congress. Liberals are for the most part atheists. Simply a minority forcing the majority to their beliefs. The idea of liberalism is the individuals needs override societies as a whole. Me first everyone else second. We are a republic based on majority rule. Make it simple. Put it to a vote and the majority wins

Answer 1

Amen!

Answer 2

Barton is an authority on nothing.

Critics, such as Rob Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, have written that Barton's many "quotes" that he claims are from James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and from U.S. Supreme Court decisions were apparently fabricated. Barton has admitted he has not located primary sources for many of his quotes but maintains that this is not important to his central thesis because they are consistent with the views of the Founders.

Critics also point to Barton's lack of academic credentials in history. Barton received a Bachelor of Arts degree in religious education from Oral Roberts University and was given an honorary Doctor of Letters from Pensacola Christian College but has no academic qualifications in history.

Barton taught math and science, but not history, for eight years at a Christian school that grew out of a church started by his parents. [5] In addition to his other political critics, Barton's credibility is questioned by some Christian commentators.

Historians dismiss Barton's work, with Derek Davis, director of the JM Dawson Institute of Church-State Studies at Baylor University, saying "He's not a trained historian. He can be very convincing to an uninitiated audience. He's intelligent. He's well-spoken. But a lot of what he presents is a distortion of the truth." [8] But Barton is widely respected among the Religious Right, with Sen. Sam Brownback praising Barton’s work for providing "the philosophical underpinning for a lot of the Republican effort in the country today -- bringing God back into the public square.”

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=22479

Answer 3

You're fighting for your right to impose your religion onto others. That a 180 year-old definition of a word supposedly lends you support, or that a historian with sketchy credentials agrees with you, is not very convincing. Any moron can argue about the Founding Father's original intent. It's what they put on paper that counts, and that was the result of much negotiation. I'm sure some people back then agreed with you, but not everyone. And remember, liberty back then was restricted to white males. Was that also their original intent, and must we honor that intent?...

Be a Christian all you want! Just don't force me to be.

Answer 4

It amazes me to look that individuals don't fully grasp what he charter states. The Constitution states ; Congress shall make no regulation RESPECTING an established order of Religion or prohibiting the loose recreation of. What this implies is ( and also you iwll see this if in case you have an fundamental tuition degree english trainer provide an explanation for it to you) that Congress could make NO legislation displaying favoritism to at least one faith over an extra. Also to fully grasp the reason of our founding fathers appear at their writings, The Danbury letter from Thomas Jefferson amongst others. Our founding fathers accurately discovered that Religion has no situation in politics. To exhibit favoritism to at least one faith over an extra is flawed on account that it destroys the idea of all guys are created same if their religions occur to be one of a kind. The Constitution has NEVER forbidden devout exhibits on Gov't estate the way in which a few individuals like to curve it. The charter has continually mentioned ALL religions must receive same appreciate. For evidence of this appear on the frieze within the Supreme Court. It now not most effective indicates Moses however Mohammed and confucious and Hammurabi. Also it's NOT the courts who've CHANGED matters like acknowledged above. they have got simply dominated on what our founding fathers expressed within the establishing. Look at article 6 of the charter it states that any treaties entered into via the US gov't come to be the SUPREME LAW of the land. Now appear on the treaty of Tripoli. Article eleven states; The US gov't is in NO WAY Founded on Christianity. This used to be handed UNANIMOUSLY via the Congress and signed into regulation via John Adams, with NO dissent. And if Our country is meant to be a christian country, which company of Chrisitanity are we? Baptist? Catholic? Mormon? Protestant? So please do a little study and spot what our founding fathers meant for this nation.

Answer 5

All I have to say is: how would you like wiccan prayers in the classroom? Or the Wiccan Rede displayed in Courthouses? If you don't like it think of how others feel. Isn't that what you Christians supposed to do anyway? Love thy Neighbour?

Answer 6

What does liberalism have to do with?

This has to do with freedom.

I do not worship a god and I do not want my government to make me worship a god.