Why are we discriminating the muslim women in the UK?

Question

let the musim women wear their veils. to hell with wanting to see facial expressions.

Answer 1

If Jakc Straw is sincere in saying that he'd like muslim women to remove their veils because he "wants to be able to see their facial expression," then this is NOT and issue about terrorism. If for example a woman wears a veil in such places as airport and such, were the tension and fear is high, then it's a reasonable reason enough. i agree. but to see their facial expression? Would he also have them pass through a truth machine or something?
The muslim veil is not strictly ordered, so obviously the woman would not commit a sin by removing it for whatever reason, but the face-veil goes much deeper than 'divine orders' women wear it beacuse they are very shy, or because they feel safe behind it, or even for such earthly reasons such as shame of their ugliness or such. It's a psycological thing, and i think that BEFORE people should say: yeah, what's the big fuss and all, they should STUDY, at leats a bit, of psycology and the religion of the concerned people. you can't condemn people on the basis of not liking them or thinking they're just being petty.
This earth's not about who's country's is who's. to all the people who say: yeah, why don't the muslims and balmkc people go back to their country, did you never consider that it was US, the European people, who started the 'invading other people's coutnries' thing, and not the black people, the pakistani, the muslims etc?
Moreover, we SHARE his earth. we don't fight for our bits. We share. it's like sharing a flat: you get a real cow as flatmate, you can't do anything--except move out. If a woman wears a veil because she believes in it, or if a guy carries his cross aroudn his neck because he believes in it, then let them do so in peace as logn as it doesn't harm anyone!
Oh, and can i also mention that the world's most notorious serial killers, rapists and psychopaths are/were European/American?
All in all: i totally agree with you: let them ahve their viels and to hell with facial expressions....

Answer 2

It is interesting to me that in an informal poll by the Lancashire Evening Telegraph, In response to the question: Jack Straw has urged Muslim women to remove their veils. Do you agree? 75.6% voted YES

Jack Straw's comments, published in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph, sparked much controversy. Muslim women are required to cover themselves when they pray and most Muslim women cover their hair when they go in public. The decision to cover the face partially with a veil (niqab) or fully with a burka is a personal one and not a religious requirement.

What Jack Straw said was:

"The reason that you see people is so you can see them and communicate through what you see on their face as well as what you hear through your ears."


"I think, however, that the conversation would be of greater value if the lady took the covering from her face.

"Indeed, the value of a meeting, as opposed to a letter or phone call, is so that you can - almost literally - see what the other person means, and not just hear what they say."

He said that Muslim women who wear full veils make community relations "more difficult" and they should uncover their faces

He said he now makes sure he has a female member of staff with him at surgeries. "I can't recall a single occasion when the lady concerned had refused to lift her veil; and most I ask seem relieved to have done so."

I disagree with his basic premise that the reason why a meeting has more value than a letter or phone call is "seeing" a person's facial expression. The value of a meeting is that there is instant feedback which is delayed in written communication. It is similar to a phone call but a meeting allows for fewer distractions. Even in the corporate world sometimes meetings are conducted via conference calls.

There is some research regarding a person's facial expression and lying, such as the number of times a person blinks so maybe Jack Straw is looking for signs of sincerity? Since he is a public servant, it should be he, who is open and available to the public and not the public he serves.

Furthermore, a Muslim woman who removed her veil still would not make eye contact, according to Quranic injunctions. So the concept that communication would be facilitated is questionable.

If there really is a communication problem, perhaps having an interpreter available would be a better option.

I believe that a woman should have to remove the face veil for identification purposes such as a driving license, but that requiring a woman to remove the veil for a conversation is unnecessary. The official, by virtue of being a government official, when making a request would have more intimidation in requesting a woman to remove her veil than a teacher or other person with whom a Muslim woman might have a conversation. I believe that is why the Muslim women removed their veils because most have come from countries where the government is a brutal oppressive regieme and non-complaince with a request from a government official could mean serious consequences. I think that the same women would not remove the veil if the request were from a non-goverment official.

If the reason for removing the veil were one of identity, security or for a health examination, I would approve of the request. However, his reason was for sincerity and to make him feel more comfortable. What a person communicates through body language is subject to the interpretation of the listener and can possibly be misunderstood. A person's words should be all that is considered in this regard. He is the public servant and his job should be to make his constituents comfortable, not himself. I think that when a Muslim woman must remove her veil in front of a man that she would feel inhibited. It would affect her ability to communicate in a negative way.

So long as wearing a veil is legal, it should not have to be removed so long as the person is engaged in a legal activity.

Answer 3

Muslim women are not being discriminated against. I presume this is about Jack Straws recent comments. He implied that a veils hinders communication. Well in a way it does.

Communication is only about 7% verbal, leaving the rest to body language and facial expressions etc. So he was not lying. Should he have said this out loud? We are supposed to be a democracy, so there fore everyone is entitled to the view. The manner in which he said it is questionable, but he does not speak for all Brits. Just because something is mentioned about a veil, it does not mean it is being attacked or those who choose to wear them are being attacked. It is just a view.

We are going to have to learn to live together without all this nit picking. His comments were his own views. They were not meant with any hatred, animosity or to belittle Muslim women. Lets not worry about small things when there are so many awful things in the world already.

Answer 4

There are a couple of points here.

Firstly you are completely right - if muslim women want to wear burkha then they should definatly be allowed to make that choice.

My concerns are; that Islam sees women as second class citizens and inferior to men. Therefore, if a muslim husband wants his wife to wear a burkha/hijaab but she does not wish to do so, it is likely that the women will consider it appropriate to do as she's told.

Secondly, the plan fact is that it IS harder to communicate when you cannot see someone elses facial expressions. Try speaking to someone in a crash helmet or a large hoodie. Jack Straw was correct in that at least. The whole point of a burkha is to hide everything from view, and westerners may take that as an insult - the implications being that (1) western men cannot be trusted, and (2) implies that they think western garb is not appropriate.

Answer 5

because Muslim women by living in britain have chosen to live in a non shariat society that is much more permissive and liberal than any shariat law country could ever be. Given the heigtened state of security that we all have to abide by as a result of an islamic led bombing campaign and contuing threat it would be a small concession to the society that has so graciously welcomed so many islamic immigrants to at least show your face for identity purposes. As a born and bred british citizen if I walked down the street wearing a balaclava I would be arrested, and if I was I wouldn't scream discrimination. get off you extremist hobby horses show a bit of respect for the country and society that not only permits but supports you or go to afghanistan, pakistan, iraq or anywhere else where you feel they won't discriminate against you. I'm sick and tired of this b*llshit.

Answer 6

I am sorry that i have to say this but, i wish that you would get with the program. Like one of the other replies to your question that said about being able to walk in Mecca safely with a Crucifix hanging from your neck. It is respect for other cultures which stops us from carrying this out, or adhering to local customs etc.. I agree that wearing a veil is part of your religion, but please respect our customs and stop getting so upset about such a trivial thing. With all the unrest and distrust in the world already, do we really need to upset things further, over a piece of MATERIAL! Also, the guy has a very valid point and says that it makes him feel uncomfortable when he has to face people wearing a veil, as he can't see a full expression. I personally like to see the whole of somebodies face when talking to them also. As a last point i wish that people would understand that everybody ia different and the sooner we all choose to compromise on our differences, the world would be a much nicer place. There are far greater issues to deal with.

Answer 7

This is culture shock... two different ways of looking at honesty.

WE are not discriminating against muslim women.

WE are not ordering them to wear veils because they are women in the first place. Do Muslim men wear them? No. Sex discrimination. Not by the Brits, by their own people.

WE are asking that if they come to our politicians to speak that they at least have the courtesy to show their face and not hide behind a culture when they don't respect ours.

If I ever visit a mosque I will always show respect and remove my shoes, or whatever the request of the host may be. What these people are now saying is "we however, won't respect your requests when visiting you".

The fuss is all over a reasonable request based on practicality and manners, and is not offensive, but has been CHOSEN to be taken as offensive for political, and hypocritically, racist reasons.

Answer 8

For fooks sake, they *choose* to wear a veil (and a lot of muslim women get by very nicely without wearing a full veil). They *choose* the amount of social interaction that they have. If they *choose* to never see an MP at his surgery, thats fine by me.
British people are NOT discriminating against muslim women as a whole.

Muslim women have chosen to accept the discriminating religion that they belong to.
They have chosen the discriminating clothes that they wear.
You can still be a muslim and show *some* of your face, and that is all the MP was asking for.

Answer 9

Again the media blow something out of proportion and people get swept away and start shouting about rights and violations. PC garbage!

What he said was that he would ask a muslim woman wearing a veil to remove it, not her head dress, her veil and it is a perfectly reasonable request to make, personally I would prefer to see a persons face when I spoke to them and 70% of our communication is visual, so again a perfectly reasonable request.

Answer 10

I personally think its sad that people are brainwashed by their religions, which constrict so much upon their lives-even down to the clothes that they can wear (i.e only seeing out of a slit across their eyes!)

But it is only the extremists that we should be wary about, who are threats to our society, and not every day people,and unfortunately alot of people discriminating against muslim women (and men) as a whole and branding them all like that-which they most cerainly arnt.

I respect their choice of religion, and people should not discriminate against them.

...And really even though facial expressions are very important for social interaction amonst others...

yep i agree with you, they are welcome to wear full veils...

I know i wouldnt want to!