Jack Straw, is he right or wrong?

Question

My opinion is that (and I'm not religious in any way, so I sit on the shelf) If there is such a big issue about muslim women lifting their veils, and they don't feel they should be forced to, how did they get into the UK in the first place, becuase I can't imagine the UK passport office accepting a photograph of a piece of cloth as someones ID. Any other thoughts. 10 points for semi to genuine answers

Hi Felidae,

I was being sarcastic regarding the passport issue. Irealise this would be the case. The issue i'm raising is that they don't have to raise the veil, they could return from where they came. They raise the veil because it's conveient for them. That is hypocrisy!!!!! Either they raise or don't

Answer 1

There has to be some form of compromise here from the Muslim community, we in the UK have allowed far to many immigrants in to the country to the point where even the government have lost track of how many immigrants there are.

If a foreign national wants to live in the UK then that's fine, however, they must make an effort to fit in instead of developing, their own mini countries in British Cities.

There is far too much give and not enough take in the UK to foreign nationals who have come here.

I personally use the 'Norman Tebbit Test' (even though I can't abide the man) the one sensible thing he said in government was ask second generation immigrants which country they support when their parents/grandparents country of origin are playing British teams at sport. First generation immigrants would (quite rightly) probably support their homeland, second generation immigrants (who were born and bred in the UK) should support the British team as the UK is their homeland.

This sadly isn't the case, I recently went to Leeds to watch one of the days play in the England v Pakistan test match, every where you looked there were second generation Pakistanis with the Pakistan flag and team shirt with their faces painted in the colours of Pakistan.

These people are British born and bred, I would bet my last penny that very very few (if any) will grow up and return to their parents homeland. They are British citizens not Pakistani citizens, by all means don't lose your heritage or culture but remember where you were born and bred and will probably stay for the rest of your life and bring up your children.

In this day and age of Terrorism, racial problems and warmongering we need all of our communities to come together and not split in to different factions depending on where your parents/grandparents originated from.

You have ancestral links with great nations, you were born and bred in the great nation of the UK that gave your parents/grandparents the opportunity to leave their homeland (if it is so wonderful why did they wish to leave in the first place!) don't pretend to be what your not, you are by definition a citizen of the country where you were born, raised and live.

Be proud of that whilst not losing your heritage.

I would be interested in an immigrants view of why when they were born, raised and intend to stay in a different country from that of their parents/grandparents they consider themselves to be citizens of a country they were never born or lived in.
This is not a dig at any immigrants, it is a genuine question. As far as i'm concerned any one is welcome to come to the UK as long as they intend to fit in and contribute to British society.

Answer 2

I am married to a Muslim man so i have come to know quite a few Muslim women all of whom wear the veil and to be honest i think it is just plain daft when they all quickly lower their veils if they are going out of the house or if a man other than their husband is around.
I would also like to add that being Kurdish and coming from Turkey where the women don't wear the veil as a matter of course my husband thinks it is rather crazy for the women to hide themselves in such a way.

Answer 3

They had a muslim girl on GMTV this morning trying to make a comparison between a jewish skull cap and the veil,she seemed not to realise that a skull cap doesnt cover the face a veil does.I work in a post office in the UK and am a white UK citizen that deals with all sorts in life,we have one law in this country that says you have to take off your motorbike helmet to get service in a post office or bank so as your face can be clearly defined, surely the same should apply to all other nations regardless of faith,you should remove items covering the face before service is given so as people can see you are who you claim to be,and maybe not the budding terrorist you look like with your face covered..
Also does a muslim woman have to remove any facial garments to prove there id to the british police force??Something tells me that they probably dont..
In general in the UK we do not have a problem with peoples dress sense,but when it comes to security issues then a compromise has to be looked for,and in this case is the temporary removal or lifting of the veil is not a major asking..

Answer 4

Like you, I"m not sure where I sit on this one.

Jack Straw has a point; from your "Average Brits" perspective; talking to a person in a veil is difficult. In my working life this happens to me every now and again and, while I accomodate this, it does make communication that little bit difficult.

I suspect that JS may have put the issue forward in too strong a way. It's something that makes life interesting for us, but is something that is an integeral part of their religion.

Re: Passport Photo - they don't - they have to lift their veil for the photo.

Answer 5

I haven't heard that item of news yet, but yes, for the time of taking the ID photo or checking the identity, the veil in front of the FACE (removing from the hair doesn't make a difference) should be removed.

Answer 6

I think Mr Straw has hit the nail on the head, and is entirely correct. To avoid beig treated with suspicion they should lift the veil. For far too long this country has allowed human rights to interfere with security and nationality issues.
My personal belief is - if you want to live in, or even visit, the UK you should abide by our laws and traditions. We do the opposite - making laws to suit those who might be 'offended', and because of this immigrants think we're a 'soft touch'.

Answer 7

actual appropriate for elevating a controversy which would be too tender for many to advance. we could recover from this worry of being categorized a racist each and every time pointing out something that the liberal father or mom-reader does not like. fifty 3 out of fifty six could be a touch deceptive statistic interior of a inhabitants that has an particularly super muslim community - besides the indisputable fact that it nonetheless stands proud worryingly.

Answer 8

i dont understand what is the mess about muslim's women veil. if they decided not to do then who can force them to do so. i dont think u ppl are understanding u think britain is a democratic country. if she is then everyone have their freedom of expression, freedom of culture, freedom of everything but if its not against the law.

now everyone says that it is uncomfortable to speak to a person who u cant see the face. as being a student i m quite interested in face reading but still if someone dont want to show their faces then i think eye contact is enough to talk to a person.

jack straw have his problem about veil i have similar problem as well. i dont feel comfortable against half naked girl or someone showing more then cleavage(although like everyone i love the scene but u cant speak to a person comfortable while watching her boobies & thighs).

so it means that half naked dresses and low cut tops should be banned?

Answer 9

Jack Straw is correct, in Britain we have a culture of face to face, eye to eye contact. Where someone can't look you in the eye we feel them to be less trustworthy. It is quite in order that Jack requires this to be respected. Muslims who disrespect our culture should be forcibly expelled from the country

Answer 10

Right - to try to open a dialogue about full face covering veils. and right about his reasoning for that.

Wrong and insensitive to require constituents to his office to remove theirs. That's an abuse of power and entirely unhelpful.